FTP variance in testing protocol and VO2 work

TR considers 8/20/ramp/ai equally valid though, which one is correct?

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Or manually entering whatever you want.

I am fairly certain they strongly reccomend the ramp. They go on to say that you should always do the same one, and not pick and choose. IIRC, they further go on that it should always be the same time of day, the same warmup, the same ritual, because it is about setting your zones for efficient and targeted training. If you follow there training plans (including Adaptive Training), they never pick anything but the ramp test. That is the TR philosophy, for better or worse. The other formats are alternates, not the sctual prescribed workout.

Isaac

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I think the point of TR and PLs is that FTP might be right from any test, or it might be wrong. The current info coming out from the TR staff in the poscasts is it doesn’t matter, as long as it is close. My guess is if it is within 15%, PLs will adapt based on your results and survey responses. And FPT for TR doesn’t mean FPT on a different training program. So which tedt is right doesn’t matter. For those of us that are hung up on it, choose the lowest number! That way VO2 might feel easier.

TR didn’t always have the ramp test though it’s actually only a couple years old, and when they implemented it they didn’t change the plans or % of ftp prescriptions.

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I know, change is bad. But they did change the plans last April, I think. The HV plan was in got really easy and ticked me off. Then Beta AT came out, and now its full on AT. FTP prediction is here now. They have continued to change/update, and probably will into the future.

An accurate FTP is a :unicorn:. It might be pretty, but it probably doesn’t exist. We could always train like Lachlan Morton, without power meters and only ride based on RPE. That worked for a hundred years…

The FPT test that is right for you, is the one you want. I know which one I use. Cheers!

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It’s worth pointing out that exactly this is in the workout text of many of TRs VO2 workouts. They really try to drill the point home about adjusting the power target to find the sustainable, tough but not fully exhaustive effort that you can repeat at the specific duration. I think many people miss this and are too set on doing exactly what the workout has programmed.

The only slight gripe I have is that it doesn’t currently play that well with AT if you go off-target in a workout, leading to confusion about how to rate the effort, etc. But I don’t think it actually matters much in the end, because you’ll make similar adjustments in the following workout too. It’s perhaps not as ‘seamless’ as some might expect, but I also think it will improve once the PL algorithm is updated to cater for actual work done. Also if there were more VO2 workouts in the catalog at different power targets it could perhaps learn which level to set you at without you needing to sense and adjust it yourself. I think Nate mentioned something similar to this in the AI FTP thread last week.

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You could do your 10x3min workout with the current 250 FTP.
If you smash it and rate as easy you’ll be adjusted accordingly and still had a pretty productive workout (30 minutes above threshold). How bad would that be?

You could adjust to 265 and try the same workout. Maybe you do it, maybe you don’t. If you don’t mind -go for it and let us know how it went

Exactly as you said:

VO2 = maximum power you can sustain for the repetition/ interval, for all intervals of the complete workout.
The TR power targets are only guidelines. For VO2, do not use ERG mode, just go as hard as you can for the duration of the interval, with maximum steady power, that you can repeat for all intervals.

VO2 is about being close to VO2 max for as long as possible.

While the ramp might not be the best test for estimating ftp, because it is estimating map it is a good test for estimating intensity for your vo2 workouts.

Why is there such a big delta between your 3 m best and the last 1 min of the ramp. Are you comparing inside vs outside? They should be relatively close.

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I’m okay with ERG as long as you’re willing to adjust intensity, but yeah. And it’s not just in-workout text that emphasizes it. This is straight from the workout description of a TR VO2 workout:

“Important: Try to settle on a demanding but repeatable power output such that you can finish as many intervals as possible. The goal is to accumulate a productive level of stress at a high level of intensity while avoiding the need to frequently quit intervals early.”

This actually lines up with what the “backpedal YouTuber” was saying, but he’d rather criticise based on one article than actually get familiar with the platform.

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Just to say isn’t this basically what AT is trying to help with? I.e., the variation in % between FTP and VO2 for different athletes.

From my own experience I kept finding the short/shorts easy (kinda surprising since my short power isn’t good normally) - so I have been rating them easy. And last night it threw me a Stretch workout which felt much more like I would expect from a short/short VO2.

This also kinda addresses the above point about interval intensities (although, inter- rather than intra-workout) since if you’re finding 107% easy and rating it as such, AT should start feeding you harder sessions at a higher %.

A good option if you know it’ll be too easy might be to select an Alternate workout with a higher PL - this will play nicer with AT than adjusting the % in the workout. You can still adjust the % down in the workout if needed, you wouldn’t get the PL bump then (but that would be accurate in that case). This would avoid the issues mentioned above with increasing the % and the struggling what to write on the survey and having the reverse issue - which I think is worse as it means your next workout is less likely to be appropriate.

So rather than messing about with your FTP (if the ramp result is giving sensible sweetspot/threshold workouts anyway) I would try and get my VO2 PL to the right level. In this case could just be you’re really good at 3 minute max/VO2 efforts, which is why it gives the higher FTP estimate.