eTap questions for older frame

competitive cyclist has 11 speed Etap in stock - well as of yesterday the last time I was tempted

i think they do not have the front D in stock, but briftors and rear D. If you chat they will often work you up a special price

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hummm

do i want a 1x11 set up?

dammint @MikeMckinney… you got me thinking again

Ha Ha (rubbing hands together) welcome to my world

And mine. I just finished a build and am lusting after the new Campy 1x13.

Fortunately for marital harmony we have just been presented with a bill for damp-proofing :man_facepalming:

Dude…c’mon! 11 is one more!!

image

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Whoa this thread is so timely and exactly where I’m at that I had to log in for thoughts and advice! Quick background - was a reasonably fit weekend warrior cyclist about 15+ years ago (75-100mi/week which meant weekends). Hung it up because reasons. Now getting back into it because different reasons and totally love it.

Had my bike, a 2005 Seven Axiom SG, properly refit. It’s amazing how 15 years of inflexibility, weight gain, and height loss (yeah that’s a thing) impacted fit. Anyway, am back on the road and have some upgrade-itis.

Current group set is all Shimano 600 (precursor to Ultegra) from a prior bike (yes even older than the Seven) except a DuraAce crankset. The rear cassette is 8 speed, so I’m running 2x8 though don’t know the cogs offhand.

Ksyrium Elite wheels.

Thinking about SRAM Force etap. Possible?

TIA

11 speed, absolutely…relatively painless. Brifters, derailleurs chain and cassette. You may be able to get your old crankset to work, but could be a bridge too far. I have done 10 spd on 8 spd cranks with no issues, but never tried 11. if not, Ultegra R8000 cranks are plentiful and cheap 9less than $220 often).

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Thanks @Power13! Sorry if this is a dumb question but why not a SRAM crank if the existing crank won’t work?

Oh sure, you can absolutely do that…but an Ultegra R8000 will probably be the least expensive option., that’s all. And you still get a great crank.

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Ah I see. Gotcha - thanks again. Last (?) question - will my wheels still work as-is other than the cassette swap?

Yup…you’ll need to remove the spacer once you take the old cassette off, but then just slap the 11 speed on and you are good to go.

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Only that Sram Force eTap 11 doesn’t exist?

Would make life so much easier, and cheaper, if it did though!!!

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I don’t think this makes financial sense. Nor will you have an easy time carrying over your components to a new frame. The transition to disc brakes is almost complete, so you won’t be able to re-use your groupset, unless you go for mechanical disc brakes. Even if you can find a rim brake frame, in all likelihood it takes direct mount rim brakes, so you’ll need to get new brakes one way or the other. You might need new cranks, too, because who knows what BB standard we will have by then.

Your frame is almost 12 years old by now, and newer frames are vastly better. They are more comfortable and take wider tires, for example. I’d save the money for a new bike. Even a new mid-level bike is likely already better than what you have. If you don’t want a new frame, I’d spend the money on a bike trip or something.

The financial sense of buying a $5000 new bike?
This is of course the logic I follow myself, but eTap or Di2 isn’t going to be any cheaper on a new bike, because you’ll be buying a new frame/wheels along with eTap?

11 speed etap is really easy to put onto an older frame, and might give it a new lease of life. Having said that, Ultegra 6600/Duraace 7800 generation shifting and braking was superb due to the external outers, and maybe a fresh set of cables might bring a new lease of life anyway.

I have an older steel bike with duraace 7800 which feels just as nice as the Duraace 9050 Di2 that I have on my Venge, which feels just as nice as the Etap I have on my Ritchey.

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@acliffalay when you say “Only that Sram Force eTap 11 doesn’t exist?” are you referring specifically to the ‘Force’ part specifically, or to the prior comments about how 11 speed cassettes are hard to come by? I ask bc to my understanding there are several SRAM 11 speed cassettes that are compatible with Force etap, no?

One other thought re: what you said “… eTap or Di2 isn’t going to be any cheaper on a new bike, because you’ll be buying a new frame/wheels along with eTap?” It actually does seem like it can be challenging to build an exact bike, otherwise sold as a package, for the same price. At least at the (very) high end. Whether someone like, say, Specialized S-Works, is achieving that via bulk discounts on the components they buy, or significantly marking up their frames when sold separately, or both, I guess is up for discussion.

Either way I agree with you though. Updating my Seven with some combination of Force etap and ‘old’ etap is a lot cheaper than a new bike. Where it gets tricky is the slippery slope. I’d get new bars bc mine are a touch narrow for me. Newer bars also transition better to newer brifter hoods. I’d also get a new stem owed to geometry changes in my body as compared to 15 years ago. All of that and it’s still cheaper than a new bike. But, almost all of that stuff is dead-end investment because of my rim brakes. I likely couldn’t, and frankly wouldn’t, take that stuff to a new frame, i.e. I wouldn’t build a new rim-brake bike.

So it’s kind of a choice among…do nothing now, spend a couple/3 thousand now, or spend $7k+ on a new bike now.

I’m lusting the S-Works Roubaix frame set ($4500) and thinking of building it with Force etap. I’d come in higher than the Roubaix Pro ($6700) but well under the S-Works Roubaix with SRAM Red (11,500). Obviously this is all a hell of a lot more than updating my Seven!

Yes, I was going to put up the same reply but figured minor detail so who cares. There isn’t a “Force” level 11 speed eTap, it’s Red level only. You can certainly use “Force” level (or lower) cranksets and cassettes though, maybe the new Force AXS HRD calipers on 11 speed eTap but not HRD calipers from Force (or lower) 11 speed groupsets on 11 speed eTap…at least not without some hack. If it’s rim brake I have no idea if it matters since I don’t know the difference, if any, on the pull.

There isn’t a way to make an 11 speed cassette work on Force eTap since it’s 12 speed.

Far cheaper to go complete new vs building new as your example showed. I looked at a Madone SL7 and for the price of the frame plus groupset alone you get a whole bike.

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I’m talking the Force bit, Sram Force eTap only exists in 12 speed.
Therefore if you wanted to install Sram Force, you would need to change the freehub body on your wheels to a compatible freehub (not sure whether you can for Ksryrium wheels?) so that it could fit a 12 speed cassette. You would also need a 12 speed compatible crankset/chainset, as well as a 12 speed compatible chain.
You might then decide to go for a different wheelset, and starts adding up.

Whereas Sram red etap 11 speed is still popular second hand, and holding value, as it is compatible easily with other 11 speed Sram/Shimano groupset parts, cassettes, chains, as well as fitting older frames where di2 would be tricky.
I use Sram red etap 11 speed with TRP mini V brakes, Rotor Aldhu 11 speed chainset, Ultegra rear cassette.

Also disc groupsets are more expensive, particularly in Sram Red AXS and duraace Di2 flavours, and could only work with a newer disc frameset, and is part of the reason why modern bikes are trying to recalibrate mid range road bikes to $5-7000 dollars.

I’ve held onto my Duraace di2 groupset and Sram etap groupset through multiple changes in bike frames, and I don’t plan on going to disc any time soon.

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I think this has shifted (interestingly, imo) from a discussion of electronic shifting on an ‘old’ bike to a more general chat about upgrading bikes with ‘old’ technology vs buying new.

I totally get that technology moving forwards is the way of the world in all walks of life. I also fully expect electronic shifting to become the standard on all ‘serious’ road bikes from the middle of this decade, just like disc brakes pretty much are now.

What irks me is effectively losing the choice about upgrading an existing bike, and being pushed instead towards a whole new purchase. Clearly there is a business model at play here, and part of that is making ‘older’ tech obsolete. The other part is pushing prices upwards at a rate well above inflation on the grounds of better tech.

I could be wrong but I remember reading somewhere that prices of Trek and Specialized models had increased at between 2 and 2.5x the average rate of inflation in the past 4 years. Certainly, if you want a bike in the low 7kgs range, that is serious money now; a current Trek Emonda SL7 (a £5k bike) is (supposedly) 7.8kg without pedals. A 2017 Emonda SL6 was under £2.5k and slightly lighter.

I know there is more to bikes than weight, but even so…

Anyway, rant and digression over. I will go back to polishing my penny farthing :rofl:

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Spot on. I only saw that after I made my post above, but I’m glad it’s not just me…

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