What’s the point attacking the Zwift platform. It’s great fun and offers something TrainerRoad doesn’t: fun and connectivity. Who wants to stare at a graph out of the 80 while you can have fun socially and do the same workout. Btw who needs 1500+ workouts?
I used to do TR workouts while on Zwift. Now do the same but with Xert workouts. The social component of Zwift is just so motivating!
I’m really surprised how primitive the Zwift world still is about rankings/ratings. There is a ton of precedent for how to handle things like this, from games like chess. In those competitions, you gain rating points when you beat someone, and lose points when they beat you. And the points you gain/lose are scaled based on how much stronger/weaker the opponent was before the match. E.g. applying the Glicko system Glicko rating system - Wikipedia after each race, for each pair of race participants.
There is some math involved, but over time, each racer would find that they are evenly matched with other racers at the same rating.
I’m shocked ZwiftPower hasn’t done this yet. They have the data to make it happen. But they appear to be going a different direction with their ranking system.
I started a thread about this on ZP a while ago, but the discussion didn’t give me any confidence that cyclists are ready to break from tradition. https://zwiftpower.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5341 for the curious.
Nothing wrong with Zwift, everyone needs to find their own motivation to ride the trainer. Zwift did nothing for me after using it for 3+ months, I’d rather listen to music or watch YouTube videos and learn stuff.
Back to the original post… a local triathlete was killing it in Zwift races a year ago, averaging over 300W and winning B races. He took that outside and podium’d real lfe races. As @Bbt67 pointed out, on a flat course forget W/kg and focus on the FTP of 185. I’m bigger guy, currently at 2.3 W/kg which is what, D category? But I could put out close to 250W for 25 minutes which would likely put me much higher up the leaderboard on the City Crit Race in C category.
It seems odd to use W/kg on Zwift flat races, its like trying to use W/kg to predict results on the pro Spring Classics.
Ride on! 
The rules are usually posted in the event description when you sign up.
There is some flexibility for personal breakthrough. You could upgrade to a new category during a race without being disqualified on zwift power. However, there is a maximum threshold at which point you are automatically DQed. It is significantly over the category threshold though.
Lots of sandbagging in zwift. Try one of these put on by some of my Fell Swoop team mates and the Washington State Bicycle Association. FTP’s and mandatory upgrades in categories are very closely monitored by the organizers. There is a USA East series and a USA West series. New series starts next Wednesday and runs each Wednesday night for 9 weeks. If you win the series you could be the lucky recipient of a rubber chicken!!!
Information here:
https://twd415.wixsite.com/sweatfest
How do they figure the 2.5-3.2 w/kg? Does it apply to ftp /hour power or to the race avg? I’m assuming you can hold higher w/kg in a 20 min race than vs your ftp?
I agree with this entirely.
I’m the first to admit that I’m a massive sandbagger in zwift. I just sign up for whichever category I feel like doing on a particular day.
However, I’d love if they could design an in game ranking system based on who you’ve previously competed against. Similar to how Crossresults work in real life.
After they designed their automated ranking system, they could then use it to force everyone into their respective categories for the races.
I think this would make things much more interesting. As currently, the problem is when you’re racing D, C, or B races in Zwift you have no idea who is actually in your category and who’s going to get DQed at a later point. It ruins the racing when you’re trying to keep up with someone in the C grade who’s going to end up averaging over 4 w/kg and get DQed on ZwiftPower when everything is said and done.
It’s just really astonishing to me with how much money they have that they continue to sink funds into different maps but haven’t made any meaningful changes in the game play for years. Zwift could be really fun if they implemented proper categories.
My whole career is based on people insisting their “thing” is new, different and everything must be done from scratch. I gave up telling them after about ten years!
Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it, etc.
I agree with you here.
The Zwift races are not perfect by any means but if you use them purely as a way to push yourself for the duration then they are brilliant.
Don’t worry about the final result but look at your own stats and try to improve those.
You won’t find many other ways to push yourself to the limits with other indoor training platforms.
Until Zwift enforce Cat entry levels based on past performance then there will always be sandbaggers but don’t let them put you off enjoying the races for what they are.
Hi Fasttk9dad,
you say zwiftpower do the results… what do you mean by that… how do they police it? I’m on Zwiftpower, but I’m not sure how that would answer OP#s question… (i.e. you join CatC and then cannot keep up because the CatC racers are not doing the w/kg it says they should?
And a 4.5w/kg triathlete who’s new to racing should be in cat 5, that’s not sandbagging, it’s what cat 5 is for.
There’s a marked difference between the objectives of categories in real life vs virtual one. In the former, the issue of handling in a pack puts your example triathlete in Cat 5 because he/she needs to demonstrate the ability to manage that 4.5W/kg in close proximity with other scary people. In the latter, there is no such issue; the only problem categories are trying to solve is creating competitive groups.
Right. As of now, with no real progression system and only the pure W/KG category system, there is no need for people to “work from the bottom” like we do in real life.
That can (and probably should) change if/when Zwift institutes a proper scoring and ranking system. That is basically about earning “points” (or whatever marker is appropriate) in relation to other competitors. It’s the same approach applied in many other virtual racing and competitive venues (not to mention most competitive cycling in the real world), so it should be applied here as well.
Those points and rankings should set rider ability and control access to events as a result (again, just like most real life cycling). True, that basic handling skill is not an issue in virtual cycling, but we can still look to the process of having riders compete and work their way up the ladder (and restrict them from lower rungs as appropriate).
Nothing is perfect and the ranking is open for issues too. But there needs to be some basic control to event access applied, if Zwift has any real intentions to making “racing” a thing that is not manipulated and distrusted at the level we see now.
Wow, I thought my 182 max was low. Good reminder that HR is always relative.
For me Zwift has its place. I race the B’s and have worked my way up over the last couple of years. I like my TR but I find that I need to mix it up sometimes. That’s when I find a race to replace my TR workout. Its a game though, and people cheat, but I still find it fun and a great way to mix up training. In the end, you usually end up in a group with riders putting out similar power and it still feels like a race to me. And I push myself and work hard.
Zwift does not seem care about cheaters unfortunately. Even blatant cheaters are ignored. ZwiftPower makes a good effort to patrol. Everyone racing on Zwift does not sign up for ZwiftPower though and I’ve seen estimates as low 50-60 percent participation.
Even if you’re new to Zwift give it some time. It a game and you have to learn how to “play” for sure. I find it a great compliment to my TR regimen.
you have to learn how to “play” for sure
You totally do. There is a learning curve like any other game. I did probably 30 Zwift races last winter as a mid-B and I don’t get why people complain when they ride a constant 3.5 w/kg for 30 mins then get dropped.
I actually found Zwift races replicated real crits pretty well because of the huge surges. The flat courses usually start really hard and then have a series of “selections” where you have to go really hard to stay with the group or you get dropped. I went from pack finishes to top 5s and top 3s at the same FTP just from learning how to do the races.
And as far cheating goes, the most frustrating experiences I had were not with suspected cheaters but with power dropouts in the middle of races on a hard effort to stay with a group 
I did a couple of races recently, 32kms flat race, entered A accidentally. Got smoked, finished last by 54secs, 2nd in B. The 1st in B was 177w@3.4w,
Second race, Last 6 mins I took a 4km flyer, went off the back and hit them at 600w, at 393w for 5mins, caught and hit out at 400m, finished 10th. Dont really care about the results its the training that matters.
Here’s the newest ZwiftInsider post on enforcing categories. It’s a follow up to the article posted earlier in this thread.
Sounds like I should really pay more attention to zwiftpower. Is there a great into or overview video you would recommend?