I’m going with what Trek actually allows in their specs, not what someone has crammed in with questionable clearance.
1 Like
Yeah, but the question is are they stating what labeled tire size should fit or what actual tire size will fit? Those can be significantly different and manufacturers are taking different approaches.
The conservative method is to say 700x48 (labeled size) fits but have good clearance for an actual tire width of 51 mm because some tires run big and wide rims make them even wider. The legal team may insist on that approach for liability reasons.
The engineering mindset is to say that the user should use tires that measure 51 mm or less. But that nuance may get lost in the chain of documentation, marketing, press coverage, forums and user understanding. So then someone may run a 50c tire (actual width maybe 54) and have a rock get stuck or mud wear thru the frame.
It’s unfortunate, but there’s not standardization in reporting frame tire clearance. Plus most people think 48c = 48mm.
Muddy water for sure with rated vs measured.
All I know is that Mfgr’s tend to design around 4-6mm minimum clearance (IIRC?) at the rated size. So trying to keep things in the same basket, it’s relatively “right” to compare Mfg to Mfg. As noted, people routinely squeeze in larger tires, but that comes at the expense of the Mfg preferred clearance.
It’s interesting that this new bike doesn’t feature the double decker Hover Bar. That was featured heavily when they rolled out the Grail. On a gravel “adventure” bike I would think they would want the increased compliance on the rough stuff. Maybe the bigger tires add enough compliance they didn’t see a need for it?
Great news. I’ve been waiting on the Pizzle, the Dizzle and the Shizzle, but now I can get the Grizl.
5 Likes
I was in the market for new bike and was able to get an order in before they sold out. Grizl will be here in a few days. I’ll post some feedback after I’ve had some time with it.
4 Likes
Compared the geometry to the grail AL size M (no hover bar), and it seems to be almost identical.
In some videos it was said the grizl is a bit slow / sluggish on road, shines more on gravel. Do I see it correctly that if you were to put on 40mm tires you basically had a grail = with the versatility of using it on road?
Curious about where Canyon goes. If the Ultimate had slightly more clearance and maybe a little more comfort/geo options you wouldn’t really need the Endurace. I love my Endurace but do wish it had slightly more clearance and less toe overlap for gravel duty. As is I can fit a 35+ in front, 33 back. On the road it is fantastic.
I’m not super familiar with that bike, but have you considered a 650b wheel set? That usually allows you fit larger tires and is pretty easy to do with disc bikes.
1 Like
I actually have a Felt Breed with 650bs - and it is great as my 80/20 grave/road bike. They likely wouldn’t be a good match for the Endurace though - the fork clearance doesn’t get significantly wider lower down and would imagine it would be really twitchy up front. And not sure I could even fit in the back. My Endurace comment was more about extra clearance for an 20/80 or 50/50 gravel/road bike - something that is still fun on the road, light, but with some clearance for 38-40 700s…
Yeah, the reason to do 650b is that sometimes you can fit larger tires. 42mm 650b is the same diameter as 23 700c. It all depends on the geometry of the bike in question and can take some experimentation.
I really like the Grizl, except for:
- Uses the Token Ninja bottom bracket, which is sort of a press fit, but the two sides screw together in the middle. Why not just a regular English threaded BB or a T47? Especially if it’s for potentially bikepacking and long distance riding.
- I thought (and could be wrong, I just heard it in a youtube review of the bike) the bike has a 1.25" steerer tube, so that would not really align with good compatibility with aftermarket suspension forks.
In general though, the Grizl is very appealing (spec, geometry, weight, tire clearance, nothing too proprietary like a Future Shock, lots of mounting bolt bosses). I’m not going to order it (bottom bracket concerns), but it gives me so much hope that other brands will move their gravel bikes to more like a Grizl.
And a new stem, or possibly adding a reducer there too.
1 Like
Oh, interesting. I’ve converted a 44mm headset lower bearing from 1 & 1/8 to 1.5", but didn’t realize that similar options existed for the top. Good to know.
I don’t really understand why they decided to do 1.25". If 1 &1/8 to 1.5" tapered is good enough for mountain bikes, then surely it is good enough for an adventure bike.
Of course, the youtube reviewer could have got it wrong. Maybe they thought 1/8" = 0.25" …
Other canyon models (and as mentioned, Giant) also use 1.25 steerers. Bummer if you want to use something like a redshift but not too bad finding regular stems.
correction: after years of peaking at the redshift site - I just saw this – “*Oversized 1-1/4 inch available in late 2021 - [sign up here to be notified](”
1 Like
I think for that bike within the Canyon universe you would land with a GRAIL now.
to educate me, what are some of the concerns one would have with this BB compared to “regular”, specifically for the bike packing & long distance?
Press fit BB’s are more likely to creak than english or T47 threaded. Sure, many people’s don’t, but certainly more press fit BB’s creak than threaded (or at least the threaded is just removed and put back in, and the creak is gone).
This one at least doesnt require a specific press kit to install it, as it appears to “self press” in as you tighten it in.
But, say you take it on a long trip (conti divide, or asia), and your bb dies, then you don’t just need a shimano external cup hollowtech2 bb, you need this pretty rare Token Ninja BB.
If I’m riding off with bikepacking gear, then I really don’t mind having an extra ounce of bb over a pressfit (and I don’t even know if the token is lighter than a GRX threaded bb).
So I totally accept that 99% of press fit bottom brackets don’t creak, and that 95% of gravel bikes won’t even wear out (or water damage trashes) the OEM bb, I’d just like a more common english thread that I can find replacement parts for more easily.
Apart from that though, this bike ticks the most boxes out of all the bikes I’ve looked at.
2 Likes
I just don’t see why a bike that is going to be weighed down with bags/big tires etc, and ridden on longer (multi-hour) to multi day/week rides, needs a pressfit bb. I get it with some ultralight race bikes or sprinters wanting to put out mega watts, but this just seems like an unnecessary risk (risk of creak, risk of having to get a shop to press in a new bb when on a big trip etc). I’ll take the extra ounce, and I use shimano cranks with a 24mm spindle, so don’t need the clearance for 30mm spindles either.
But yes, for most people, it won’t be a problem, and they’ll mostly be only riding for a few hours, and can put up with a creak.
It’s also curious to me that a few brands have abandoned pressfit and gone back to english thread (or T47), yet Canyon release a brand new 2021 bike with pressfit.
For me, the Canyon Grizl is off the list.
1 Like
I would like to hear from Ninja owners about how they rate the bb. You thread the two halves together, and that’ll make a “solid” piece (that sort of looks like a dumbbell), but that single piece is now sitting in a carbon sleeve with some interference fit (i.e. it’s pressed into it). Could that (now) single piece bb creak inside the pressfit shell under pedalling forces?
For me, the great thing about the Grizl is that it confirms the industry direction, and bikes like the Cannondale Topstone alloy (threaded bb) are due an upgrade soon, so hopefully they follow the Grizl for clearances and geometry.
As of today, my top choice is the Santa Cruz Stigmata. And now with the Fox gravel fork being closer, maybe they’ll be a 2022 Stigmata with geometry that allows the Fox fork to be used.
I found a very positive review of the Ninja, so it seems a good solution to a problem that nobody asked for (i.e. I had zero issues with english threads, so I had no problem, but then the manufacturers went press fit, and they creaked, so now we have the ninja).
I think if the industry wasn’t moving back to threaded, then i would go Grizl. But as the industry is moving back to threaded (english or T47), I’ll hold off until someone releases a bike similar to the Grizl, but with a threaded BB and no Future Shock.