+1 for the point of diminishing returns is a Specialized Allez Disc with 105.
Fits the latest thinking 30mm tires
Disc brakes for huge descents and riding in the rain
105 11 speed for compatibility with the latest stuff
Some aeroness
If I had no bike and I couldn’t get the Allez sprint smart weld disc, then I’d spend $500 on a 9 or 10 speed bike from 10+ years ago with decent wheels, with the only extra requirement being to fit 28’s (and a compact crank, and a 28-32 cassette, depending on where I’m riding).
To take this back to where we started, with that “cost of getting faster” piece that TR did… the engine is the most important factor in performance. Everything else is personal preference. That being said, I do have some opinions on this matter.
Buy a mid-range drivetrain and spend the extra money on maintenance. Change cables regularly, change the chain before it’s 100% cooked, keep things clean. A well-maintained cheap drivetrain is faster than a dirty top-end one, every time. My choice pretty much every time is low-end frame, mid-range drivetrain, slightly nicer again on wheels, and the nicest tires I can afford. And then I make sure everything is in top shape (if anyone here has ever seen the state of one of my bikes, feel free to call me out on this).
Focus on the things that will make you confident. Good tires are worth their weight in gold. So are good contact points, bike fit, and anything else to make sure you’re comfortable and in control. Being confident in your bike and your relationship with your bike is part of your engine, and your engine is what makes you go fast.
If you’d like I could outline my specific choices in equipment if I were buying a setup for a given discipline, but I really think that’s beside the point. It’s kind of worthless to say “anything more than $1500 is marginal gains” because that money goes to different places in different scenarios, and that’s even more so if we put used equipment in the picture.
I do think that tipping point is very budget based because it’s purely a perception of value. Someone with $1000 in their pocket may not find the benefits of a $1500 bike worthwhile. Someone with 6k may draw their line an Ultegra. Part of it is justifying to ourselves what our means can afford us. I can’t afford a 12k bike so I tell myself it’s not worth it, someone who can’t afford a 6k bike may have plenty of great reasons for why my bike isn’t worth it. At the end of the day the incremental improvements between bikes net less and less gain the more you spend, and I think as long as the bike has the proper gearing to let someone utilize their power in an efficient manner, there’s lots of things they can spend on like fit, kit, helmet before the big bucks for aero wheels or an aero frame really make sense.
Then there’s guys who have all the cash in the world and ride around on F12s and Madones and are sitting nearly upright to take advantage of all those aero gains, but not everyone has bottomless pockets (I do but they have holes in them cause I spend all my money on bibs and my jeans are old)
The recommendations vary a bit on bike type. On mountain bikes, suspension components are of huge consequence, and you have the hardtail vs. full sus decision ahead of you. Road bikes are much simpler beasts.
IMHO, though, many people focus way too much on components rather than other things. Here are a few things people should pay attention to more:
Get a bike fit. Yes, spend the money on a bike fit. Get another one a year or two later. Ideally, you should get a bike fit before you buy a new bike. Bike fitters love nothing more than customers who bought a race bike a size too large or too small, even though their customer isn‘t nearly flexible enough to ride it properly.
Be sure you buy the right bike with the right geometry in the right size. A lot of people seem very loyal to a brand even though most brands have a bike that is roughly equivalent.
Be honest with yourself: why do you want a bike? I know some people who bought a Dogma F12, because someone famous won the TdF on it. That‘s not bad per se, but it won‘t be the most comfortable ride. But hey, that‘s ok, most Porsche GT3 owners never make it to a race track either.
Get good clothing, especially good bib shorts. I can‘t re-iterate how important this is. You can feel a bad bib short, and it‘ll be painful. Good clothing keeps you warm/cool in the right ways. Good clothing is very expensive but IMHO worth it in ways that 105 vs. DuraAce won‘t be.
All of the above are way, way more important than e. g. frame material or components.
As far as components go: for mechanical, 105/Rival are good enough and functionally identical to their higher-tier mechanical groupsets. For electronic groupsets, the same holds, the lowest-tier groupsets are functionally identical.
People underestimate the importance of wheels.
Bike weight is overrated. Slightly heavier wheels can feel a lot better than lighter, better-on-paper wheels.
Have a look at where the industry is going and what standards are being phased out. E. g. the road bike industry is going to disc brakes, so think carefully whether you want to buy a new rim brake road bike this day and age. (I own the last gen of 26“ MTBs, and basically, I can‘t get modern parts for it anymore, including tires and such.)
If all a higher grade component does is save weight over the entry level one, it’s usually not worth it. Unless you’re a competitive hill climber probably.
The other thing in terms of value is that there are a lot of other brands out there, some who make great bikes that cost half of what the big brands cost. (Some also just market rubbish bikes at high cost).
The key is to understanding your bike and its components well enough to understand when something would improve performance, and when its just a name that sounds good.
Interesting approach @jeremy - so you’ve built most of your bikes?
low-end frame, mid-range drivetrain, slightly nicer again on wheels, and the nicest tires I can afford
In terms of tires, i get the idea of having a good engagement angle, bearings, stiff and stable wheels - bt tbh many carbon wheelsets aren’t more than 200g lighter than some alloy wheelsets i’ve seen at 20% of the price.
Feel free to PM me your specific choices - always interesting to hear!
@OreoCookie such a good point re the bike fit and getting the right size. That seems fundamentally right and is obviously a cost item which is easy to miss in terms of total budget. I’ve got a level 3 fitter where I live, and am signing up for a session, but made the rookie mistake last year of buying a bike before having a fit.
Including yourself, many have mentioned 105 already as a groupset offering good performance for the price. What’s your “tipping point” in terms of wheelsets?
Re Rim Brakes, i’ve got one rim brake and one disc brake bike and have never had issues with stopping force from the rim brakes. You’re right it probably makes sense to move with the tide on this one, but it’s a shame how rim brakes are disappearing.
VFM is 100% relative. To some, a £50k new Ferrari would be outrageously good value; to others, there’s just no way they would spend that much on a car. FYI, my father always told me not to skimp on boots, wine, or the wife, and that advice has served me well
On the cycling front, the other things that are probably worth mentioning are a) durability/expected life and b) how many bikes do you own/need?
Re. a), a £2500 custom frame might seem a lot, but if you genuinely expect to keep it for a decade or more, then the value starts to look a lot better, and the tipping point moves.
Re. b) if you are looking for an n=1 (say a ‘groaval’ bike for want of a better expression), then again, it may be better value to buy once and buy expensive.
On the road bike front, my other half got a Trek Emonda ALR 5 (decent quality aluminium frame, latest 105 gruppo) shortly before Xmas. I am amazed at how good it is; I genuinely think if I changed the wheels (and the size ) then it would be more than adequate for everything I want from a road bike.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t enjoy it as much, and how do you put a value on that?
That’s tough. But I would say the $1,000–1,500 for a decent pair of carbon rims (or your favorite currency equivalent range): you can get Firecrest 404Ses, which are goldilocks wheels in terms of weight and depth. Or you can get equivalents from other manufacturers. If you are not afraid of ordering things from China (and are not afraid with having potentially no service), you can look at more like $1,000.
Just to be clear, it was not my intention to fan the usual rim vs. disc flame war. But I think it is a fact that (whether you want to or not) the bike industry is moving in the direction of disc brakes for road bikes. Soon only entry-level bikes and very specialized bikes will come with rim brakes.
That’s also why I emphasized “new” in my post, if you really like rim brakes or you have a decent carbon wheelset at home, I’d go for something used. Otherwise, just go with disc brakes.
I’m also glad you like the Trek Emonda. Yes, aluminum frames are great these days, truly underrated IMHO. The weight savings are for most intents and purposes not that crucial. It is much easier for you to lose the 200–300 g that is the weight difference between an aluminum and the equivalent carbon frame. Specialized makes the Allez, which is so stiff that many people would describe it as uncomfortable. But that’s what it was made for. A team mate of mine has one, fully decked out with DuraAce. I guess that is one way to spend your budget.
There are custom or semi-custom frames for do-it-all bikes, too. IMHO if you are not primarily interested in speed, a bike with wide tire clearance is a great option. If you are looking for something at a reasonable price, have a look at the Mason Bokeh — aluminum, plenty of tire clearance, this could be your one-and-only bike, unless you prefer flatbars. If your budget is tight, I’d get a 700c wheelset and put on 35 mm semislick tires (think Schwalbe G-One Allround or its faster Speed sibling with smaller knobs). Once you get two wheelsets, you can get two different tires for different purposes.
I’ve done 10k miles on a caadx with Sora 9 speed, and I’ve only had to replace the wearable parts, it’s always been faultless over the six years I’ve had it…and it’s lasted a fair few CX races
In about 10 years’ time, that’s exactly the type of bike I can see myself owning: capable on road and light-ish off road, nice and a bit different but not too expensive, pretty durable. I know the guys at Mason too: they do put a lot of care into their bikes and their customer service is excellent.
I’m a big fan of the CAAD family in general, and if you could actually get one, would very seriously consider one for a bit of a weight weenie summer project. Ok, you take a bit of a punt on the bb, but I’m fairly sure there are conversion kits out there now. If so, I’d just put one of them in straight away, probably put on Chorus and some light alloy rims, second hand decent quality alloy finishing kit, and I reckon you’d have an excellent, sub 8kg all-rounder.
Nope. It’s individual. Depends on what you value in a bike and how much $ you have to spend.
The most recent bike I bought was a Specialized Diverge. The comp carbon model for $3800 retail. The S-works version was $10k.
For me, the Comp was all I wanted and didn’t think it was worth spending any extra. I didn’t want 1x or electronic shifting. And I didn’t think the carbon wheels are needed on a gravel bike.
Clearly, however, some people want the S-works version and think the extra $6k is worth it; While others wouldn’t want to spend $3800 on a bike.
On the MTB side, I’d be willing to pay more than road/gravel, as I think there are more benefits (for me) to be had by spending more. Suspension, brakes, drivetrain, dropper, light carbon wheels, etc.
My personal philosophy, and what I’ve done with my last couple bikes, is 105 groupset as it has all the performance I care about, and is priced right at the point before pricing starts to go up exponentially. Then, spare no expense on tires.
IMO, an extra $50-$75 on a set of tires buys a lot more performance than an extra $1000 of groupset. Yet…some people look at a $60 bike tire and gag.
I’d also add that a good 'cross bike is a great investment if you are interested in doing multiple disciplines on a budget. A 'cross bike will be perfectly capable in road racing, crits, gravel, you can ride tame mtb trails with it, and of course cyclocross.
I take tipping point to be the point above which it makes no real difference in how far or fast or comfortable you can be on a ride. Below that point, you’ll have trouble keeping up, or getting up the hills your bunch/race mates are doing.
i.e. if someone who is newer to cycling or big events, turned up to the Death Ride in CA, and had a Sora 8 speed bike with 39x53 cranks and an 11-23 cassette, and their bike weighed 11kg … well, they’re gonna have a bad day.
However if they were on an Allez Sprint Disc 105 with 50/34 and say 11-32 cassette with some 30mm tires … they’re beyond the tipping point. There are no real gains in going from that to a $12k s-works version. Sure, you could drop 2 or 3 lbs, but that wont be the difference between you finishing or keeping up with people.
I get it, that people used to use 39x23 to get up those same climbs, but equally people rode TdF on some pretty basic bikes back in the early years.
This is underrated advice. IMO the last places to save money (or weight at the expense of something else) are tyres, saddles and bar tape - i.e. the contact points.
Get something that fits well, doesn’t weigh a ton, has 105 or equivalent, then just get the very best (for your purposes) tyres, saddle and bar tape - and most people are going to have all they actually need.
Fair enough… You Mileage may vary. I did ride this bike (Fuji Tread 1.5 (2016) Adventure Road Bike | Adventure Bikes | wiggle.com) for about 5 years and it’s currently sitting on my trainer now. But if it came down to saving a few hundred vs. a 105 upgrade, with hydraulic discs, I’d go 105 hands down.
) then it would be more than adequate for everything I want from a road bike.