Correct…which is why I said DUB wide cranks, not bottom bracket. SRAMs DUB Wide cranks all have spindles that are 5mm longer which pushes the chain line out 2.5mm. If you run a 68mm BB shell you run 5mm more spacers, if you run a 73mm shell you run the “normal” spacers.
Feel like as soon as tire tech catches up, the obsession with tire clearance goes away. That combined with the fact that we’re all likely running tires that are way overkill for what we’re actually riding make bikes like the new Aspero and other 45mm limited options make a ton of sense. My theory is that while everyone sees the aggressive gravel events like Traka and similar, most of us don’t do those and tend to ride super chill almost bike-path style gravel. Obviously anything over 40-45mm would be overkill in this situations.
This from someone that owns a Mog, and recently bought a Fray. Predicting that the Mog sees very little use this year.
Just my $0.02. Lots of tire clearance talk on here and other places. Think that aspect is going away soon.
4 Likes
I think it’s already normalized a bit, but I still personally wouldn’t buy a gravel bike that couldn’t properly fit 2.2’s. But to your point, most of my higher priority races have selective sections where big tires are a significant advantage. For me, it comes down to trade offs. Big tires cost you a little bit on pavement and super smooth gravel. But they are such a big advantage on chunk and sand (often the selective spots) that the tradeoff makes sense for me. If a race finishes with a 35mph sprint on pavement, that’s where a smaller tire could be a difference maker (assuming you stayed attached through all the selective sections to be in the sprint).
And for bike design, I don’t see the point of not accommodating ~2.2’s unless you want to support 2x drivetrains. I just don’t see any design tradeoffs with the current crop of bikes that support ~57’s. If I were designing a new gravel bike today, I’d optimize the geometry around a 50mm tire, but with proper clearance for 57’s.
5 Likes
).
+1. I think gravel racing is going to settle at 45 mm for most courses but having the option for more clearance for the chunk is nothing but a positive. I hope you are right and this is where things land.
I guess the question isn’t if they can do it,.. but can they make it look good so people buy it?
2 Likes
Come ride the Marin hills / Mt Tamalpais (home of mountain biking). A lot of “gravel” trails have long chunky / rocky stretches that are better suited for mountain bikes than gravel bikes, so 45 / 50mm gravel bike tires are actually needed
If something is better suited for a mountain bike… I generally take my mountain bike. 
7 Likes
I’m on the market for a new frame - I typically buy the frame and build up to my own specs and needs. It drives me crazy when some brands - Argon 18 - don’t offer a frame only option. It’s a miss for some brands that don’t include internal storage and 2.2” clearance. My hope is Argon 18 offer a frameset w their new model.
I struggle w the geometry of many brands running crazy low front ends for tall guys: Lauf and Ventum for example. Sonos short reach on others. The Otso is intriguing but not seeing one in person and only 50mm clearance may be an exclusion for me.
I have a Stigmata V3 currently and love to run 650b with Thunder Burt’s, they are great on mixed terrain. Fast on gravel roads and the ability to challenge MTB’s in singletrack, so 2.2” is a must so I can run 700’s.
The bike companies would just have you buy a “Race” bike that takes 45’s and an “Adventure” bike that takes 57’s. It’s cool that there are different options for different needs, but I’ll just stick 45’s on my bike if I ever have the need to run small tires. If I were a fan of 2x drivetrains for gravel, that’s the only thing I can think of that might push me to get a 2nd gravel bike that can’t run big tires.
I’ve got a race next weekend that is over 50% asphalt and mostly tame gravel for the rest of it. Even with that, I’ll probably run 2.2’s if the course is dry. The start is ~30 minutes of slight uphill (usually into a headwind) with some sand sections. It’s the crux of the race. If the course is wet, the sand will be firm and I’ll probably roll 50’s. Otherwise, 2.2’s to optimize that first section and then just deal with a little extra drag on the pavement sections (including the finish).
3 Likes
Who’s buying all the spec crux in the aftermarket? I’ve been eyeing a few and they all sold during the weekend. I was hoping for a price drop since the new crux rumors are mounting fast.
Not me. The geometry is all wrong for me.
I like that. More reasons to get the incoming crux-ified tarmac. I suspect it will be ridiculously overpriced though.
Oh yeah….whats up w Giant Revolt and no UDH 
Unless you are obsessed about style points, it’s usually possible to get the stack right with spacers and stems. But if the stack on a frame is too high, you run out of options pretty quick. As an old dude with limited flexibility, I run a bunch of spacers on my lauf, but nothing too crazy.
No one said they weren’t needed for your specific riding. Suggest re-reading my comment, then re-reading your response.
+1, same.
1 Like
If you’re riding 2.2 MTB tires, that’s a mountain bike ride, full stop. The whole idea of lower rolling resistance on wide tires is a 2024/25 concept. The science has advanced beyond focusing on rolling resistance at the expense of everything else. Have people not realized that the pros ride wide tires to avoid flatting when they clip a rock or slam into a pothole in a dusty race start when everyone is maxed at 190+ bpm and you can’t see a thing? At what point did the average jane/joe get it twisted and think that they too need 2.2 MTB tires? Most of us don’t race, and if you do amazing for you but the odds of you needing a 2.2 MTB tire for more than 90sec before fields thin out are pretty slim. Great you get the benefits for 90sec but then you have to lug the tire around all day.
3 Likes
Check out Rodeo Labs Traildonkey, they built their latest model with a longer head tube so it may work well if you’re taller. Though probably unlikely you’d get to see one in person before buying.
I’m honestly a bit surprised this bike isn’t mentioned more. The sliding rear dropouts make it incredibly versatile. I just built one with force 2x and am able to run 2.2s on it. The only thing people may not like is the longer chain stay when running bigger tires but I think this tends to get overblown. When I’m not running 2.2s, which is most of the time, I’ll slide the sliders forward and it feels as nimble and snappy.
5 Likes
The pointy end of amateur racing has most of the same dynamics as the pro races, just at lower speeds/wattages. 90 minutes into Unbound and there is still a pack of well over 100 people in the amateur race fighting for position and forced into terrible lines. And even the local 60m gravel races have largely turned into road races with big packs.
That’s just wrong in my experience, at least for racers who are trying to be competitive. Gravel races aren’t time trials, they are much more like classics road racing where people are trying to rip the race apart at any selective spot. Not having to close gaps after selective sections is often the different in a race. And some courses have long sections where a 2.2 can be a big advantage. I raced Valley of Tears last month and it was a course with lots of sand a a few long heavy gravel sections. 2.2’s were a huge advantage on those spots. But there were also long road sections where 45’s were an advantage, but that doesn’t hurt too bad if you are in the draft with 2.2’s. Zero chance I end up with a decent result at that race running 45’s, I would have been dropped in the first sand pit or that first chunky railroad stretch. And I’m not saying nobody had success on 45’s that day, but most of the high placing amateurs (and pros) were on big tires. Ben Delany (youtube guy, fast amateur) finished just in front of me, he was on 50’s and said he wished he had gone w/ 2.2’s after the race.
And modern MTB tires aren’t significantly heavier than gravel tires. Actually, my Race King 2.2’s are the same weight as my Schwalbe G-One RS 50’s, so there is no “lugging the tire around all day”. There are places I’ll run the 50’s, but any course with selective chunk or sand is better with 2.2’s for me. YMMV.
9 Likes
This is absolutely true. Even in local races when you start out in a big pack, you will not be seeing everything you are hitting. Will you probably be okay either way? Yep. But the bigger tires are helpful too. I’ve tried race kings and burts and more conventional “gravel” tires. In most races, my legs have been the deciding factor but I have seen situations where each is def better.
We have a race in July with a decisive sand section. Did it one year on 42’s and then the next on Burts. First year, I got dropped badly there. Second year, I dropped the entire group I was in and only two or three of them caught me afterwards to regroup. There were other differences between those races so it wasn’t only the tires, but it was nice to put the hurt on people vs getting smashed. But then at gravel nationals, I realized that the Burts were the wrong choice for that course. Other than one muddy section where some of the motos even crashed (and lots of racers), I was at a disadvantage with the bigger tires. Lots of sharp short climbs and then on a long fast paved descent where about 10-12 of us just tucked and went as fast as we could, I got dropped by the whole group based on nothing but their bikes rolling faster down a paved hill than mine when none of us were pedaling. It didn’t matter because I rode back on once we hit the flat, but it was an interesting thing to witness how much slower my big heavy tires were, even though we were going downhill.
As always, these things depend.
2 Likes
Each race is independent and the skill is choosing the right tool for the job. As others have said, when you’re on the limit trying to stay in the wheels while in the dust, tire choice makes a difference. Technical sections vary as well. But champagne gravel 40’s are great. Having a bike with options is the best option IMO.
4 Likes