I don’t know what to think about this zone system. When I’m fit, say May or June. I can do 3.3-3.5 w/kg at this heart rate. Feels like tempo to me. Maybe that’s what ppl are doing with the esteemed Dr ISM “methodology”.
Sounds about right. For me the key is temperature. Once it gets hot in Jul-Aug, my HR anchor points are lost.
They do. It’s called lactate testing.
But I feel like I’m in the ballpark by triangulating the talk test, dfa alpha 1, and classic zone 2. It’s close enough.
No, that’s what they use, and they say use the Talk Test to get close. No one that I’ve seen has made an attempt to suggest what an athlete should do to “perform” the talk test.
I doubt many can, or should, invest in the cost of lactate testing until it becomes a lot more mainstream.
(I also feel like I’ve got it “close enough” from listening to all the messages here and different anecdotes, but it’d be nice to have something more definitive - acknowledging nothing is definitive in these realms/discussions)
Me too.
When did people start mapping W/kg onto zones? I guess its Zwift ride classifications? What happens if you ride in the flats, is there really much value in talking about W/kg? I’ve only seen that on Zwift rides 
I’m always at or above threshold at 3.0W/kg, so thats 160-165bpm pretty much all year except when I’m adapting to the heat in the late May and June.
Completely with you that HR is on a sliding scale with temperature. But not that big of a difference for me. 200W endurance is 138bpm in the 45-55F temps this time of year. And once it heats up from late May to late October that 200W endurance is 142bpm at 82-92F temps. Except for the first week or two of riding in the heat.
My tempo / LBP / just over LT1 / Zone 2 but “not the Zone 2 you’re looking for” / convo on the phone and they would know I’m exercising/ happy hard is….
…also Friel Zone 2 HR.
I actually understood and enjoyed every reference. Thanks for the chuckle lol.
I’ve never once looked up “Friel HR Zones” until your post, but fascinatingly so is mine
My “My tempo / LBP / just over LT1 / Zone 2 but “not the Zone 2 you’re looking for” / convo on the phone and they would know I’m exercising/ happy hard is….” Individual number I’ve used is the boundary between Z1 and Z2 . Maybe I should try all the alphabets all the way up to 136bpm
Some counter arguments to my simple field testing:
- “Coggan said all day pace, not all day HR”
- “all day HR from a field test? It must be grounded in science and therefore prepare to determine your all day pace (HR or power) from an hour lactate test”
- “You crazy hippie Wind Warriors are tiling at windmills, your simple 8-16 hour field tests can’t be correct, because those have no basis in proper scientific lab testing. We must have lab testing under an hour to determine your all day pace!”
- “I insist on having my HR and power zones to align, even though Coggan never claimed HR and power zones should align”
- “LT1 for the win, its both the lower bound for proper z2 training AND demarcation of when autonomic stress starts to enter the conversation… because only autonomic stress matters, it allows us to have 2 zones. And don’t talk to me about metabolic stress, work stress, lack of sleep, or any other practical boat anchor on going out and getting work done, get a lactate meter, map out 15-25 hour weeks, and go Norwegian on all your sessions if you want to be a disciple of easy/hard polarized training!”
Ok, I’m convinced, forget everything I wrote. Practical rough estimates are lame. I’m on Amazon ordering a lactate meter and strips.
LT1. The upper, lower, and mid of zones.
LT1 is the 42 of our times!
I watched that when it came out. I didn’t feel like I was any closer to knowing what the “conversation method” was.
As I said earlier, I have inferred roughly where my LT1 is, but “conversation method” is so vague. I often have “conversations” with workmates when ojnthe trainer at Sweet Spot, it’s neither pretty, or comfortable.
One day I’ll pay for a lab test if I ever feel the need to get closer.
How many hight intensity workouts were you doing per week back then when you burned out?
I’ve been on TR HV Plans and burned out.
Then, I switched to MV, but still got burned out.
So, I moved to LV starting tomorrow, and we’ll see… I’m starting specialty, so I should hopefully survive and make it to my A event on April 22.
However, since this is the fourth year I’m Bruning out from a TR (high intensity) base/build plan, I’m considering to move into one of their experimental Polarized Base/Build plans.
I think close enough is plenty good in this case. Some would even challenge the existence of a lower lactate threshold. Threshold of what? AFAICT, you can measure VT1 in a lab but LT1 is still “measured” with lactate readings and a guru needed to interpret the chart.
and this test was with 10-15min stages
What’s your rpe out these workouts?
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind…
I think a few are getting lost in the weeds. Are most of you really saying you can’t tell when you are working too hard during your “Z2” rides?
It’s only the past 3 months I’ve had a power meter outdoors. For a long time I’ve worked off RPE. Listen and feel your breathing; you’ll know when it is changing and you’re moving beyond VT1. Try and stay below that and you’re good; see that change in breathing as a cap when going up those hills.
Maybe people have lost their feel, and can only work to a number on a screen?