I am not sure what to make of my situation. At the end of “indoor season” 2019 I was almost there, 68.5kg and 263FTP (3.84) but I was getting burned out and the weather was getting nice. I was hoping to get to 68kg even (150lbs) but it didn’t happen.
Fast forward to this indoor season and I had hoped to hit 4 with a slight increase in FTP and drop to 68kg but it’s not happening, not even close. I was following the same plan as last year SSBLV1 - SSBLV2 and then either GB or SB.
I had an expected drop in FTP over the summer and early fall but haven’t been able to make up that loss, let alone make gains. I started back with a 62W drop to 201 - actually first things first, I switched trainers from a TACX Vortex to a STAC Halcyon. I went through SSB1LV with no increase in FTP. I actually may have because I did a ramp @ 201, didn’t do a lot for 4weeks and then started SSB so I probably dropped a bit and then gained it back. Ramp test at 201 after SSB1. I am on wk06 of SSB2 and it has been a hard slog, harder than I remember last time through. I’ve completed all the workouts but found I was going to the limit many times, and had to dial back the last interval of Lamarck to finish this past weekend.
So I don’t know. I’ve followed the same plans to date (going into build soon) but paid more attention to recovery. I did manage to drop that last 0.5kg to 68 but haven’t seen as significant a change in FTP, I really thought I be on my to 4W/kg this winter. There was a change of trainer, but that much difference seems a bit hard to believe.
It sounds like you are burning out on the sweet spot intensity. I think these indoor plans with a lot of intensity can only take you so far and as well they can burn you out. You also need those long slow 3-4+ hour rides to build the base and the aerobic engine.
Still not convinced there is enough TSS in LV for 4+ W/kg unless you are super talented. I’m 60.7-60.9kg and my FTP is at 298W on the Ramp - not sure I could hold that for an hour - certainly not on my tt bike last season - I can’t see how the LV plans have enough when you are getting nearer the ceiling of your potential (I think I am getting to that point as my gains are now down to 3-5W per cycle…need to retire and start training 20 hours/week!)
I can’t make sense of it really. With the exception of the change in trainer. I am following roughly the same plan as last year but actually paying more attention to recovery and getting worse results, not even taking 4W/kg into consideration. I’d have difficulties increasing TSS to MV levels. I would have though I could recover to at least near the same levels. Maybe it was going from untrained to structured, maybe an optimistic trainer reading
In my past outdoor riding days, I’d typically get one of those 2-4+ hour rides most weekends (did that for 15+ years). Now that I’ve been indoors for the past year, I no longer do that long weekend ride. On the trainer, the most I’ve done this past year is 1.5 hours, and honestly anything over 2 hours sounds like forever to me. But a 2-hr trainer endurance ride once, or maybe twice, a month might be feasible once I wrap up SSB2. Do you think something like that (a 2-hr trainer endurance ride) might give a remotely similar benefit to that of a 3-4 hour outdoor ride?
To all those hitting 4w/kg over 50, good on you. That just seems like a dream to me at this point unless I become militant with my eating and drop the 9kg of weight that I’m carrying over my days of old well-trained weight. At my current ftp that’d put me at about 3.75 w/kg, but that’s merely a hypothetical. Honestly it’s hard to imagine getting back to that weight, let alone adding another 20w ftp to hit 4w/kg.
I’m the o.p. and when I started this post November 12, 2019 I was at 3.33 w/kg. I have since lost 2kg (all muscle I’m afraid) and gained 14 watts, which puts me at 3.64, so some pretty good gains. I’m two weeks away from another ramp test and felling pretty good. So I’m optimistic I can move a little closer. It’s going to all have to be watts, because I don’t really want to loose more weight.
First, maybe find a way to check that trainer wattage? Get a friend over with an on bike power meter to compare.
Maybe some blood work and a talk with a doc that knows athletes? Low iron, low T, and probably many other things could lead to decreasing performance.
How do you feel when you ride outside? Are you nowhere near your PRs? Are you getting dropped on group rides in spots where you previously didn’t get dropped?
As much as the thought doesn’t appeal to me, I might dig out the Vortex and do a ramp test there and then a ramp test on the Halcyon. To me they have very different feels in their resistance so maybe the RPE part of it has a factor or maybe one is just way off of the other. and then it wold be a question of getting a PM to correlate on or the other - maybe I was never as high an FTP as the Vortex put it but my outdoor times were pretty decent but a few months off yet before any outdoor riding.
Hi,
I’m almost 53 years old and most recent FTP rramp test is 349W. I weigh 80.7 KG so I’m currently sitting at 4.3 W/KG. I’m not a racer but i do like to smash as hard as i can on group rides here in LA.
so here is my problem. I’m new to TR and i just can’t stand the structure of the workouts. Now this is absolutely not a knock on TR but rather a knock on my ability to see a work out through from start to finish.
I’ve been riding indoors on a smart trainer for about 18 months now because I was hit by a car in 2018. I broke a few bones but largely got off pretty lucky. But the fear factor has driven me off the roads and onto the trainer except for early start weekend rides (when traffic is at its lowest in LA).
I hope i don’t rattle any cages here but i LOVE Zwift. I love racing on zwift (could care less who is weight/height/equipment doping), the fast group rides (that don’t use a fence (yes there are some)) and the camaraderie of being able to communicate with other cyclists as i’m riding. Where i find zwift lacking is in structured training that TR offers.
Is there anybody out there in TR who is in a similar situation? I really want to use the structure of TR workouts so i can get faster and stronger IRL and Zwift. but the drudgery of interval work outs without the gamified environment that zwift provides is quickly driving me off the TR platform.
Any thoughts or advice from experienced TR folks on how to build the mental toughness to make TR work?
I’m closing in on the big 5-0 and I just did my first FTP test after having spent the last 4 months doing no fitness activity whatsoever (does hyperventilating whilst eating Christmas dinner count?) and I came in at 3 w/kg. From my experience, I could spend the next 4 months doing a gazillion hours of Z2 and I’d end up at 4 w/kg via weight loss and FTP gain.
Maybe SSB type training is too much intensity? Maybe try a magical mix of Z2+VO2max for a couple of month, see what that does for you.
@ZeroGravity - This is going to sound harsh but here goes: Throw away your Vortex and just start working with your new trainer and/or ideally, a crank based power meter.
My Vortex massively overstated power, and got worse and worse as it warmed up. In the years since I’ve ditched it, my combination of Quarq PM + Elite Driveo + PowerMatch has been rock solid with repeatable and accurate (or precise?) reporting.
What about doing your TR workouts and Zwift at the same time. There are threads here on various ways to do it. E.g., I have TR control my Neo 2 via bluetooth, and feed Zwift with the Ant+ signal from the Neo. Just make sure Zwift isn’t also trying to control the trainer.
I don’t find interval workouts to be drudgery (for the most part), but still like Zwift for visual distraction sometimes.
@jdman, being retired might give you the opportunity for lots of long rides, but the truth is unless you retire early in your 50’s you can’t manage more than 2hours a day as you need so much more recovery.
I’m not retired but I’m 55. Last summer I did back-to-back 3h rides and it felt great! Was the strongest i’ve been for along time. Of course it depends on how much you are used to train; I’m usually averaging about 7-8h weeks so increasing to 11-13h of z2 (75% HRMax) was no big deal at all, especially compared to SSBMV.
Fair, the Vortex is a low-end trainer but bike upgrades come before trainer upgrades. I am (or should be) less concerned about the actual power numbers but I like being shallow and the bragging rights of a high FTP. My bigger concern is the results of ramp tests (3 tests and 2 SSB blocks) all basically the same 201, 201, 204. It seems curious and I have a feeling that the STAC and the lack of flywheel other than wheel weights really impacts the erg “death spiral” and even small drops in cadence results in large increases in resistance.
I will have to wait until a PM comes into the picture to see what exactly is going on.
I think this is highly individual. I know guys in their 60’s that do 12-15 hours per week and have no problem doing back to back 4+ hour hard rides. There are some fast and strong 60+ folks out there.
If SSBLV1 -2 is only 3.5 hrs/wk then you are going to hit the wall pretty damn quick. A 3.5hr week is not actually 3.5 hrs anyway when you consider a “proper” 15 - 20 minute warm up for each session. Nowhere near enough TSS to get to the upper levels and the worse part is you are not building any REAL aerobic base and VlaMax is probably being pushed up as a result, considering the SST + Vo2 stuff. A plan like this places a premium on the glycolytic system to compensate for not building the FatMax system. If you are looking for 4 - 5w/kg…a 3.5 hr plan ain’t it. Even the high volume hours seem low for the best aerobic engine development.
I used to be the Sweet-Spot king for about 5 to 6 years and when I finally switched to Polarized I started to move the needle. I will never go back to threshold-centric riding again. Eventually…on limited hours…it is too much pain for too little (even none) gain.
Yep you are probably correct but as a teacher then except when on holiday (which is mostly slap bang in the middle of my season) I haven’t got the time for effective polarised training. On 7/8 hours week then all zone 2 bar 1xSeiler style session won’t cut it…it would if I could do back to back 5 hour rides at the weekend but I can’t so SS it has to be. Of course my fitness late season in September is usually good and I post good tt results ….why? well of course because I can get out in the summer for several hours regularly when I’m on holiday the rest of the year I don’t have time or I’m to tired. Like I said on another post I need to retire!
I’d manage z2 rides of a longer duration no problem, but as I race road and cx, I like to keep up the hiit efforts, hence the need for longer recoveries. I’d be interested to know how you responded to the longer rides, after a couple of weeks to adapt.
