I decided to take a slight detour with my SSB2 HV this weekend and try a long endurance session. I did vogelsang, 4hrs of 60-70%
Wasn’t too taxing, but it was tough to be on the bike that long. My aerobic decoupling was 7.5%, a little surprising given how much SSB I’ve done, but I only had a couple of bottles of water and eating 70 calories every 30mins or so starting at 90mins. As mentally tough as these long indoor endurance rides can be, I’d really like to incorporate longer endurance efforts in the winter
I had the same thought coming out of TBMV. Was going to move into SSBMV, but just looked like such a reduction, especially since the third block of tb is really quite hard. Opted instead to go directly into build, and then do ssb with group rides and Saturday races to keep the TSS and engagement high, before hitting specialty.
I’m not sure I understand your question - I find endurance work after intervals very helpful, but rarely stress myself up to the sweet spot area. I also add the time after endurance or sweet spot workouts based on my sensations and available time
On my 1.5H SS workout i’m looking at adding a Z2 block, and use it if i have some spare time. My question was would it be better to add it before starting SS intervals, or after, what would be more beneficial for gains.
I wouldn’t want to push the SS work in front of me, I would just extend the cooldown if I have the time and mood. I don’t think there is any significant difference.
I would say unless you feel that you need additional warm up and you go into the intervals feeling flat then add them to the end. That way if something comes up and you have to end the session you already have the important intervals out of the way. Look at the endurance as something extra to add once you get the scheduled workout done and you have additional time/energy.
It depends what gains you are chasing. If you want to focus on your ability to complete hard intervals when already in a depleted state then you should add the time to the start.
You see this a lot with high level athletes trying to win long events - so a tired max 20 minute effort might see them put in 2,000 kJ of work and then do a maximal 20 minute effort. Or, similarly, fatigued sprints after a long ride to familiarize themselves with the ability to sprint at the end of a road race
This puts the quality of the intervals in the context of your fatigue level.
The opposite is more beneficial for most riders, which is to focus on the intervals up front and then add the extra fatigue at the end after completing the challenging portion of the ride
Both have their place but it depends what your focus is and where you are in your overall training as to which will be best for you
My Training week composes of 5-7hrs of training which are 0:45min-1:30h long.
I’m looking to putting some longer rides to work on aerobic performance, so it seems best would be to add that z2 block at the end to reach my goal
Wanted to circle back as I’ve just completed another four week block using the same methodology as above. Starting to think its maybe a bit too much intensity for the time of year, but mentally and physically I am really loving this approach. My FTP is consistently climbing and I feel fresher than I do otherwise
The ramp rate and overall volume I sustained during this block should’ve had me pretty gutted at the end of the third week, but, while tired, I wasn’t dragging as much as I would expect and was able to complete (barely) The Thumb +1 with a 5 watt higher FTP yesterday - which indicates to me that I’m progressing and recovering adequately
Eating 2 or 3 hrs before, you shouldn’t really need anything but water for a 60 - 70% [FTP or HR] trainer ride. Many cyclists and triathletes are actually doing these long rides in a fasted state…for the maximum amount of stimulus.
I don’t know how much below LT1 stuff is actually in the SSBHV plans but I’m pretty sure it’s compromised because of all the work that is incorporated above it. The 10 hr plan probably won’t have enough “traditional base” as a result.
My 3 - 3.5 hr Kinetic rides are water only and my 4.5 - 5 hr hybrid rides often include just an 8 oz. serving of soy milk in the brief intermission between the trainer and the road (just to keep the stomach from growling later). You should be under LT1 (2 mmol) for the duration, unless your FatMax is not developed enough for that duration, which is why you would see increasing amounts of decoupling toward the end…even if your room is cool and well fanned.
The benefits of a traditional base definitely will be seen with less than 20 hours. I’m sure you’d see some benefits all the way down to ~12hrs. Though you would have to start introducing intensity before someone with a larger training volume and, as you said, the adaptations might not be as ‘deep’.
And I’m no expert but I can almost be sure saying that this is not true. You could get part or even most of the way there but it definitely wouldn’t be “the same”.
My experience is good doing TB pretty much for the last 3 months and worked my way through almost all of them.
My ftp has went from 280 to 325 for the workouts but more importantly my fitness and engine is much better for long rides. I probably would be hard pressed to hold 325 for a hour (300 realistically) but that is why I mentioned it is what makes the workouts good for me.
More than likely I will transition to 2 days of sweet spot and then 4 days of TB style workouts loving forward for a total of 3 hours SS and 10 of TB. Bonus Zwift routes are almost done with all of the TB workouts.
I started with mv and just about to finish hv if that is what you mean. Sometimes or lately I looked at the workout and picked a Zwift route that would take the same time and did that instead of always doing a workout.
Tb hv 3 is tough and probably 80% compliance if you factor in tss but 100% time wise. I am not super fussed though as I am having a great time putting in tbe hours.
I didn’t have quite the jump you did, but I went from about 304 to 323 following a custom triathlon plan using TB as the bike portion–I put together a mix of the LV/MV/HV plans using the longer HV rides on the weekends. I’ll be starting up again, maybe in October, with it from a lower starting point this time (since fitness has fallen over the summer of no racing/real training) so I’ll be interested to see if I get similar results again. It definitely worked well for my triathlon base training since I was relatively fresh throughout, even when the efforts get harder in the TB II and III phases, and didn’t take away from my other training.
That is what I like about TB workouts as I still feel like I can do other workouts if needed. Also sometimes it is easy to raise the intensity as well. Would not be able to do that on most SS workout.
I understand though TB does not work due to the hours for some vs SS but prefer them.
I’m about to start my first TrainerRoad programme in a week or so - I know it has been covered numerous times on the podcast, but I can’t remember… Traditional Base or Sweet Spot as my starting point? I currently cycle around 8-10 hours per week, admittedly with no structure. Any advice would be massively appreciated.
