Good stuff for debates.
I can answer from my prospective, the Giant Propel was a prospective and is a fairly good value bike - it however just edges out of what I need from a fit perspective when comparing it to the others. It’s aesthetics also just dont do it for me.
The Parlee, it appears to actually be a great candidate and something I had not known about - they dont seem to publish pricing though.
Personally if I was going to drop money on a ~£5k frame like S Works, Colnago, Lab71 version of Cannondale, CFR version of Canyon, etc then I’d spec at least Ultegra and likely Dura Ace to go with it. I don’t think you’re getting much if any performance improvement with higher end groupset other than saving a few hundred grams, but then I would say exactly the same thing about a frame that uses high modulus carbon to save a few hundred grams over a cheaper version made in the exact same shape. Can’t possibly justify buying a Colnago in terms of performance for your buck, if you’re spending that money it’s because you want the best and that doesn’t mean putting 105 on it!
I have a Scott dealer right down the road. To be honest I wouldn’t even know how to buy a Parlee. And the Giant is just sort of meh. It’s not bad, just kind of boring. It’s 100% just how it makes me feel.
This is a shop near me. It’s the same price other places I’ve seen as well.
$16,000 USD if I remember. That’s Dura Ace and Enve wheels. I think that’s the only build for now so there isn’t a cheaper option.
As far as what I would spec it with, probably a mixture of Ultegra and 105. Ultegra levers for the sprint shifter port and button. Ultegra FD because 105 is huge. 105 rear derailleur for the range and because it functions the same. And probably a Magene PM crankset with Ultegra rings because 105 don’t come big enough. It’s a race bike I don’t need Dura Ace.
If I got the Foil I’d likely just race it as is for a while. Maybe some cheaper deep Chinese wheels.
Seems a bit of a sacrilege to not spec this frame with the best and lightest components ones pocket allows
After $6750 for the frame, that would be the best components my pocket allows
The top spec Foil RC Ultimate is $15K. Not the same parts but a top spec build that would be in the cost class of the Y1 R and the next build down with Dura Ace is $9K. You could definitely build a Y1 R with 105 but I do not think many people shopping a frame like that would do so.
Hence my original post:
It’s been shown over and over that an aero frame saves like 10 watts. Any other savings is in the cockpit and deep 65mm wheels that are often fitted to full aero bikes. Those items can be fitted to one’s old bike.
But maybe the heart just wants a new bike…
I ride a Colnago C59. I’ve really enjoyed Colnagos but I’d never buy another. Ernesto Colnago retired and sold out to some UAE private equity group. All the new designs are not from Colnago and the new owners have embraced Rolex pricing. If you have to ask how much it costs, it’s not for you. And that’s not for me!
This was the exact list of bikes I was looking at 4-5 months ago. I priced out a nice spec Winspace and the cost was more than I expected. Between the System Six, SL8, and Foil I quickly narrowed it down to the System Six and Foil based on aero tests. I found the best deal on a System Six (and the paint job matches my teams colors) so that’s what I went with, but the Foil is equal in my eyes. Yes the S6 is an “old” design, but it’s still very relevant and within a couple of watts of the best “new” aero bikes. Even the wheels are a modern 32mm wide, and very aero.
Always.
I don’t really care who makes it. I just think it looks amazing. But I can’t drop that kind of money.
Edit: Plus, I gotta buy a bike now before all the tariffs. At least that’s what I’m telling my wife.
I won’t dispute 10 watts difference though I would like to read some of that test data. That said I think the passion /placebo effect is a real thing. I really love the aggressive look of many aero bikes, mine included (Orca Aero) and there may be something to feeling fast. I absolutely feel it is noticeably faster than my round tube Ti bike but maybe it’s mostly in my mind. Either way I will take it.
insert throwing money gif 10 watts is 10 watts!
Truth be told I’m partial to the parlee by the looks and also since they’re local to me in Massachusetts. Pricing on their site says it starts at $4500 with wrenchscience hocking them for $5500. I thought I’ve seen builds for $7-8 but I couldn’t tell you where or how long ago. Wrenchscience.com will put one together at a premium and depending on the spec they seems to think they can build one at around 15-16 lbs. but it’ll run around $10k more or less depending on said spec. I’d probably buy the frame then collect parts over time as a faux payment plan rather than buy outright. Also fun to shop parts and hunt sales. I’m guessing if you reached out to them they’d provide whatever info you’d be looking for especially since they’re willing, even eager, to offer custom paint which they do quite well.
The Giant I just mention since I thought it was overlooked in the aero convo of manufacturers that make dedicated aero frames and agreed that it does little to move the passions.
I think there’s more to aero than this, I feel exactly the same way but some of it is stiffness, responsiveness and geometry. My round tubed Ti bike is very happy cruising along at steady speeds, I’ve got some reasonable TT times on it. But on a surgey group ride or race where you’re needing to accelerate a lot and taking corners at speed it’s much harder work than my race bike. Not all Ti bikes are created equal of course, mine is a relatively low end one mainly for winter riding, could well be that a high end custom Ti frame with racier geometry is much snappier.
I should have added some information for context but for my comparison my Ti bike is a custom build. My mandate to the builder was for a “point and shoot race bike” and I think he got it right. The biggest difference is wind resistance. I set all my bikes up as closely as possible so body position and fit are as close as possible. What I refrained from is comparing to my other round tube bike which is for gravel and on pavement with road tires it is way slower.
I have 2 aero bikes I love, but my tests of my 2012 trek madone 6 series against 2015 cervelo s series was in conclusive. I can readily see a difference between aero and non aero wheels. So I conclude the aero frame has little benefit. And if my body produces 80% of aero drag, frame manufacturers claims of 5 or 10 watts every year or 2 would add up to negative aero drag for newest frame
Sorry for the delay.
Looking at Strava my all time PB on my non aero bike was 24.31.
Since swapping to my aero bike I have never been above 24 minutes with my slowest being 23.53 and fastest being 23.43. So I would say 2.7 to 3 % ish.
The non aero bike had loads of aero parts though. Caad12 so fairly slim, 50 mm carbon wheels with perfectly matched 25 mm tyres. Cervelo s5 handlebars with intergrated garmin mount and cables (a nightmare to internally run mechanical shifting). Tririg omega front brake. No lights as they weren’t required then. Aero chainrings, waxed chain etc. Bottle cages removed. Same suit, tyres, helmet, shoes and pedals when swapping.
Wheels did go up to 60 mm though but are disc.
For how cheap my bike was it was a worthy swap for the money as I love electronic shifting and the look of aero frames.