The math holds all the way down the line too. If you’re a 2W/kg rider, gaining 2(+)W is better than losing 1kg (assuming W/kg is the important metric - which isn’t always true).
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Interesting point! I hadn’t thought about that but its spot on.
I think your point matters if the rider is above 5w/kg, because by siding with watts, I’m already optimizing for the flats. As you said flats = favoring watts and I also said watts. It’s above 5w/kg where things get more nuanced.
Ah something in a GCN video that wasn’t linked. But a theoretic question about a choice most of us will never have to make.
1 kg and 5 watts are somewhat arbitrary numbers. They’re just nice and round. It might be better to look what’s the tipping point where watts gained equals weight lost.
It was pointed out earlier that 1 kg equals 5 watts for a 5 w/kg rider. For mere mortals the numbers are different:
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For a 4 w/kg rider (300 w @ 75 kg) losing 1 kg is equal to gaining 4.1 w, while gaining 5 w is equal to losing 1.22 kg.
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For a 3 w/kg rider (240 w @ 80 kg) losing 1 kg is equal to gaining 3.1 w, while gaining 5 w is equal to losing 1.65 kg.
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For a 2 w/kg rider (200 w @ 100 kg) losing 1 kg is equal to gaining 2 w, while gaining 5 w is equal to losing 2.5 kg.
So, for an average 3 w/kg rider, a more appropriate consideration is: gaining 3 w v/s losing 1kg.
Cyclists have an unhealthy obsession with weight.
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I disagree - humans in general are now an unhealthy weight.
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There is a greater problem now in the world with obesity, but within the cycling community there is a constant pressure to lose weight and be thin. This is to the point that it is really unhealthy. There is a higher prevalence of eating disorders and disordered eating in cyclists (and other sports where weight as a significant impact on performance).
It’s clear even from the threads on this board, that I have commented on before, that the group think is less weight is better. This isn’t always true.
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I should add that I wasn’t asking from a is lighter better point of view. I was just interested in the conversation… I’m very sure that being lighter will help you, as long as you maintain power, to be faster uphill. but just how much and whether it’s worth the effort is another matter.
I’m actually going for what I believe was @Nate_Pearson’s advice, and I may have this wrong, which is train the power and eat properly and the weight will look after itself.
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I know this is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but my opinion is that this is by far too dramatic. I’m friends with dozens and dozens of cyclists, most are admittedly fairly casual or local racers so I can’t speak for the pro-peloton, but not a single person I ride with appears to have a “really unheatlhy” weight problem. Someone trying to go from 180lbs to 175lbs or even lower is NOT “unhealthy.” And what is “disordered eating?” Is eating the same thing every day disordered? Is counting calories disordered? Not any more so than eating all day long whatever you please. Is intermittent fasting disordered? Is keto disordered? Is drinking 100g/carbs an hour disordered? Dieting in general is NOT disordered and most folks I know do not diet 12 months a year. Anorexia and Bulemia and other clinical disorders are disorders. Counting calories and losing a few lbs or kgs should not be lumped into that “unhealthy” category.
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It really is funny, the different mindsets here.
People will spend thousands of dollars on lightweight carbon bikes, titanium bits, expensive wheels, all sorts of other things.
And then act like weight means nothing.
If your argument is that cyclists are at an unhealthy weight long term health and life enjoyment, then that is a discussion worth having. But you should also admit that for cycling prowess, weight plays a huge factor. If you can lower your weight, and maintain the same power, you will be faster across the board.
This comment will not win me any friends here, but I truly think as the population gets bigger, people react with hostility to anyone that suggests weight loss is good. Or that a low body fat percentage is good. It’s almost as if they feel personally attacked. They immediately take it to the extreme and talk about hormonal imbalances if someone is under 10% body fat.
It’s like the movie idiocracy where the guy speaking English properly is called a “f*g”
Yes, i listened to the same podcast where Nate said he was faster with a few pounds. So what? Nate isn’t a god. He is a strong rider and seems like a great guy and has built a program (and forum) I enjoy using, but he is just another person, and on the cycling scene he is nothing special performance wise. II thoroughly enjoy the podcasts and get lots of info from them, but they aren’t necessarily the key ingredient to being the best cyclist you can be.
No, “healthy eating and building power and weight will take care of itself!” may be true, but it won’t be optimal without measuring and planning and adjusting based on your specific goals.
Don’t take my word for it. What do you think Jonas Vingegard’s body fat percentage is? Do you think his team is saying: Hey Jonas, we got it all wrong! Listen to this podcast where this guy Nate is faster with a higher percent body fat! We need to do the same!
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Thank you for some sanity!
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Nothing wrong with a healthy weight. But it is a fact that within certain sports there is a higher prevalence of eating disorders disordered eating. And even at an amateur level there is a pressure to be thin.
Problem is, we don’t see what goes on behind closed doors.
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It’s time to take your own advice and…
I’m a cucumber, friend!
Yep
I think you’re introducing an issue that has no place in this thread. What’s being asked is basically a math question, and it’s been answered quite well by a few people.
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Cucumber casserole sounds disgusting.
You really need to do more reading before you reply.
Sorry man, I don’t speak in code. You’re going to have to explain why you’re calling me out personally here.
Some info if you’re really curious about disordered eating: Disordered Eating vs. Eating Disorders: What’s the Tipping Point? - The Emily Program
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