I have seen this same type of issue presented in auto simulation racing when compared to “real-life” racers. I raced against (and beat) several pro racers back when I was on iRacing. Many other sim racers far better than I have also beaten real pro drivers. Were we cheating? Are we better than them? Answers vary for many reasons, but cheating was not an accurate answer in those cases.
One element is the differences and often, lack of feedback in sim racing compared to real racing outside. Us sim racers learn the cues from force feedback wheels, advanced 3D audio, and visual cues present in the simulation, to allow us to drive at the limit. Toss an outside driver into a sim and they lose LOTS of the “seat of the pants” info they use to drive well.
I see Zwift in a similar light. The racing is similar, but notably different. Common Z racers have learned the ebb and flow of the draft and the particular info that gives them an edge over outside racers, even if the have superior fitness.
So, the simple expectation that Pros should drop into Zwift and dominate helps show the likely fact that there is more to Zwift racing than pure fitness. That is all present regardless of the potential that power data may not be 100% accurate in all cases.
I have no doubt a Zwifter can beat a pro. Power ups flying and friends sitting on a couch cheering you on. That’s great fun for sure! The problem is I don’t care. Put those same riders outside and now I have interest! I have absolutely nothing against Zwift and subscribed all last year. But for some reason in my mind it just doesn’t count until I see you do it in real life…
Several top Zwift racers have gone on to earn pro contracts. Some top Zwift riders are currently racing in the pro peleton. Many pros use Zwift as part of winter training. Many top Zwift racers are outstanding racers in real life.
This is a cool pic for everyone that loves Zwift - the guy in the orange kit on the outside is Leandro Messineo, one of the top racers on Zwift, mixing it in a UCI World Tour Race riding along side Peter Sagan😊
I work with a cycling coach that says work in zone 1 between X & Y watts. So I don’t use ZWIFT for the coaching.
I then set that up on ZWIFT as a training workout. I like the interface. I’ve never tried TR, but I the screen shots look like it’s just a line that you stare at. Obviously watching scenery might be more interesting than that.
That said, I’m likely showing the same bias as you in that I haven’t really spent any time on TR.
TR has an excellent podcast and its clear to me that they are more focused on the structured training plans than ZWIFT.
Again the one thing that’s not got me yet is the interface.
Interesting viewpoint to post to a TR forum to say you have never used it because you don’t like the interface.
I suppose it counts as feedback. Not very constructive though.
Many of us have spent years using Zwift, along side TR for our training needs. I have over 3 years and nearly 14,000 miles in Zwift.
I primarily use it for distraction which doing TR workouts. But I love the Fondo and other special events and do them whenever I can fit them into my schedule. I also race on occasion for fun.
I and several others cover the wide use Zwift here and I do my best to keep everything positive and counter negative bias if/when it appears.
I’d recommend that you try TR, and will share a free month for you to evaluate in person, rather than from the sidelines. Private message me your preferred full name and email if you want to try TR for real.
You’re right I haven’t used TR yet. Sorry wasn’t at all meant as a dig on TR at all. If it came across that way, my bad.
Truth is I am a bottom 10% cyclist and results haven’t been there. The original question was how can anyone take racing on ZWIFT seriously? Given I’m a bottom 10% rider who may never be in the front peloton of a race (virtual or otherwise), I don’t really care if the races are accurate or not (cause I’m not winning them anyways). I was more looking for motivation not to go insane in the winter training months staring at the walls (and I’ve run out of movies to watch).
I got free ZWIFT for 3 months a few years ago through a Strava premium membership. When winter came this year I was looking for motivation from purely staring at movies or YouTube videos. I already had a cycling coach so I wasn’t seeking additional structured training at the time.
I did look at the YouTube demos of ZWIFT, BKool and TR at the time. Rightly or wrongly, it did form part of my opinion that ZWIFT would be the more entertaining. Again, not meant as a dig at all, it’s more how I made a personal decision at the time. TR is always looking for feedback. Some of that feedback should come back from people “on the outside looking in”. The other factor was technical compatibility with my setup at the time.
As I evolved, I then started to educated myself more on cycling. Joe Friel’s The Training Cyclist Bible, etc. I started looking for more information and came across TRs podcast and found the guys wealth of knowledge and entertainment awesome. It’s the reason I’m on this forum and not ZWIFT’s (if they have one?). It’s clear to me that if I’m looking for structured training and cycling education, it’s TR. I haven’t been thrilled with my coach (more specifically the results) so I’ve been considering ditching him and going with something like TR. ZWIFT has started doing some structured training stuff but it appears like nothing at the same level as TR.
TR has impressed me as a professional company serious about helping cyclists get faster and some nice guys too… definitely no intended digs here.
That will only move him into higher racing bracket and it only gets harder as you move up. A racers put down serious power so being light doesn’t always help
What makes you disatisfied with the coach, other than results.
I had a coach for 15 months and had good (much better than I expected) results but I stopped in January and undoubtedly my training is poorer now even though I am following a TR plan. I just have not been as religious in doing the workouts as I was when I was more accountable to someone.
Why not speak to the coach?
PS I ran my coaches session through either Zwift (easy conversion from TP) or I entered them in TR. That sounds quite laborious but after a few weeks you have most of them already entered and they just need minor adjustments such as copying a 2 * 21 SST session to make it a 2 * 22 minute workout.
I guess it’s a combination of price and poor performance, but I think I’m following his instructions better this year, so I’m going to give him/me this season.
