There’s a facebook group, ZwifTransparency, where riders on Zwift are posting live video’s of weigh-ins, power comparisons, and making available IRL power data. The uptake has been incredible. The folk that are serious about Zwift racing ARE doing something about it.
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yeah, but I’m not ready to spend my time watching “e-sports” yet 
and probably won’t in the coming years
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*just want to point out that my initial post wasn’t meant to bash Zwift, I honestly didn’t get the concept of “real” e-racing also I didn’t want to take anyone’s joy to do so
i’m a little hesitant to weigh in, since in a prior zwift thread I compared this type of topic to “mac vs pc” lol
as with anything, different strokes for different folks. Some people like structured training, some people like hard group rides. Zwift racing is the equivalent of a hard group ride with people pushing each other. Having done zwift racing in the past, I can say it’s a great way to ride hard without any breaks (of course I know we can find TR workouts with little to no breaks, but it’s motivational riding with others)
There are always going to be folks who take the zwift racing too seriously, or some who cheat to get the “win”, and of course those who just take it for what it is, a good way to just get in a solid hard ride. Variety is great and we’re in a golden age of stuff available.
As for watching zwift racing, I don’t really like watching most races, especially the zwift branded ones with the commentator (I think he’s objectively pretty terrible and grating to listen to) but I’ve taken to watching this guy Ash Beech who engages in chats with his viewers when he can and is pretty competitive. I’m far more likely to watch a single rider who is engaging than an official broadcast with commentary and is always switching between riders
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Those ten quid weight scales have accuracy of a 10 year old bouncing on them.
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Also, while this is undergoing some changes now, CEVA Z (formerly ZADA) verified top riders by requiring comparable outdoor performance.
Just another thought from me on the racing and making it more fair: I do think it kind of sucks when there are “cheaters” (for lack of better term, some is intention some is not) in the mix. Sure you can just ignore the results, but if they’re dictating the speed and tactics of a race, that’s kind of sucky for others.
I know zwift would never do this (either can’t or won’t as not to alienate users) is to be able to better identify trainer models as prereqs for races. I will say from my own brief experience with a kickr snap that it read 10% higher than my powertap. That’s huge.
I know I said that many people just like to experience a good workout, and that’s true of me as well, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want a more level playing field for those who really enjoy getting outcomes (heck, I’d be thrilled if I could podium in a zwift event)
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TO be fair…watching the majority of just about every road race is like watching paint dry too. I watch the TdF on FF either to the last 5k on flatter stages or to the final climbs on mountain stages. Flanders and Paris Roubaix get more attention. This is why I love watching CX…action from start to finish in most races and it’s an hour…no 5-6 hours of boredom.
Now Zwift racing I like to do from time to time. I’m not good or anything…still a Cat D but I’ve placed in a couple of those. I like to use them to test myself…what can I do in this group? Who can I keep up with? What are the odds I’m actually racing against this guy who entered cat D?
To me the point of Zwift racing is entertainment and to test myself. And honestly for the majority of us…how is that any different from racing outdoors? The reality of it is that the majority of those that race outdoors are never going to be pro, or a national champion. They too do it to test themselves against others and because they find it to be fun. Plenty of people cheat in IRL races too, tons of dopers out there, they’ve written in to the TR podcast and their questions about testosterone use have been discussed. So the reality is what’s the real difference? What’s the point of racing IRL? Unless you’re at the top of the sport there’s always someone you could beat…and there’s always someone faster.
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I don’t race on Zwift often, but when I do, it is for training purposes. Even if you assume everyone is cheating (which I don’t think is true BTW), in any Zwift race you inevitably fall in with a group and that group behaves pretty similarly to a group in a real race. Fixed intervals are great of course. But from time to time you do need to simulate the demands of a race and the mental aspect of never really knowing what is going to come next and when, or if, the pace is going to back off, or pick up. Zwift races do a great job of doing that for you. Plus, it is a fun way to get some work in and get a momentary respite from staring at power targets.
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This is one key detail I have mentioned before. I love the unknown nature of this, and it is just like doing fast group rides and races. The challenge (and fear?) of the unknown is a great thing to add to our training, IMHO.
It parallels my other comment about the aspect of doing interval training and counting the seconds to completion. I started doing some intervals “blind” and hiding the clock. I use it as a similar challenge to the Zwift races, in that I don’t want to know exactly when it will get easy. I think this mental aspect can be a great addition to the training we do.
I know I did a bunch of training and thought I was super prepared by focusing around 80% of my training inside a few seasons ago. I went into a race with great fitness, but mentally, I hadn’t challenged myself in the ways of group tactics. Result? I blew up on something I should have handled, but had too much self-doubt and questioned when the group wold relent. They did, about 5 seconds after I gave up, and I was out of the race.
Since then, I look for ways to test my mental strength along with the physical training. I think we have the opportunity through unknown intervals and racing on Zwift to include these “tests” that can help us prepare for racing beyond the physical.
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Ash is kindda awesome. I actually did my workout yesterday with the Zwift app on my laptop minimized (I only looked at the Zwift Companion app on my tablet), while I watched Ash race in a fullscreen YouTube session. It was a nice way to spend an hour. There are a few other live Zwifters out there, and I hope the genre continues to grow and attract interesting talent.
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You might not (and neither do I) but I downloaded the Facebook Watch app on my TV last October as was the only place I could watch the Kona IM live and was astounded by how many live streams of gaming there are so some people do and I guess it’s probably not a group that’s getting smaller.
To pose a philosophical question: what is the point of any amateur bike racing for people at our age? None of us will make any meaningful income from it nor achieve any type of real recognition outside our relatively small community.
I was talking with a friend of mine who races track and got a silver medal at Master Worlds. Yes, Worlds, as it winner is awarded a rainbow jersey. Her coworkers asked her what she had done on her trip and she mentioned the silver medal and they said “oh that’s nice. I finished painting my deck, man that was a heck of a project. Tons of work.”
So at a baseline, no one really cares about what we do except for each other. And that’s fine.
Being on a bike is fun.
Some people like racing, some just riding.
Some people do it outside, some people do it inside.
Some people do it fixed, some people do it geared.
People like racing on Zwift because it can be really fun. It’s a different type of fun than racing outside and has a different type of skill profile associated with it. If you don’t find it fun, that’s totally ok.
But let’s be honest, this is all pointless and that’s the beauty of it. We are able to find and define our own meaning and enjoyment in every ride without having to worry about paying the rent.
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I like logging on and racing with my teammates and friends that live more than an hour away and laughing and complaining on teamspeak for a few hours and never leave my house whilst getting a thorough workout/race in. Not possible on TR! Yes Zwift is useful and purposeful.
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So, I’ve recently been wooed back to Zwift, as they offered me free time to come back after I cancelled my membership. I cancelled because I see way more value in TR structured training, and I was only getting “junk miles” on the Zwift platform.
I’ve re-started Zwift as a compliment to my TR training. Specifically, I’ve mixed in one Zwift race/week to prepare for racing season. I replace one ride/week with a planned Zwift race, and try to keep the estimated TSS the same or slightly higher. I find that Zwift racing has validated my hard work in TR. The live-action riders on Zwift force me to push and appreciate the long intervals I’ve been suffering through in SSBII. Also, I’ve found validation and increased confidence that I can hold high wattage for longer, and not just to satisfy that yellow line staying with the blue plane. Mix in the random attacks, and inevitable bunch sprint at the end, and I leave the session with a good workout in my legs, and sometimes some validation via zwiftpower.
Zwift racing has kept training fresh for me going into race season, and also given me the opportunity to work on some (albeit limited) race tactics - like not blowing myself up, and practicing my energy conservation. IE - smart racing tactics that I’ve previously forgotten in the heat of the moment. It’s definitely not the end-all answer to proper training, but does have some value in keeping me motivated and not burnt out. That said, I’ll be cancelling my membership as soon as outdoor race season begins.
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@Jhardisk, your use perfectly captures a great way to use Zwift for motivation and a different test method than we get in TR. Thanks for the summary 
.What I find quite dull is that people who don’t or have never used zwift love to stick the boot in and rubbish the platform because it doesn’t conform to their ideal of cycling. And anyone who does use zwift is wasting their time. it also seems funny that those who say they aren’t bothered about zwift and would never use it can’t help telling the world their views! if you aren’t interested why comment?
Each to their own, i love it and use it effectively with trainerroad to form my training. More than that I have made friends all over the world and feel part of a supportive community. The world moves on, technology changes. it’s a sad indictment and reflection on people that they feel the need to bash and crticise other people for doing something different.
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I was generally curious about the aspect of official “races”, as well as I get bombarded online with topics on zwift and people pushing it
→ What's the point of racing Zwift (I know this is the TR forum) - #23 by Fenton
I could never get into Zwift before, I’ve always been of the mind that the trainer is to get on, do a workout, and get off.
Yesterday after reading this thread I decided to give one of the group rides a go… what a difference. Now I’m slow and it was a “C” ride but before I knew it i rode for 1:05 at 1 watt higher than my “FTP” just trying to stay with the group. So I guess my FTP is a little higher. It really reminded me of the feelings I had racing CAT4 about 8 years ago (I want to give up… i want to give up… no keep going, come on… etc)
Anyhow, thats not something I would do every day but if i can find a group that rides around at roughly my sweet spot I could see doing it once or twice a week. Sure made the time pass and pushed me way harder than I can do myself.
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While there is a lot of Zwift bashing sometimes, that wasn’t the intent of this thread. The OP was legit just asking how/why someone can take racing in Zwift so seriously (and a LOT of people do take it very very seriously lol). I think that got answered pretty well.
I think that’s a good approach, and why not? Heck, a lot of people seem to do their TR workouts while using Zwift to keep them engaged. I would think it shouldn’t be hard to find a few people around your FTP wanting to do similar sweet spot rides… that would be fun.
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