I suspect the market is big enough for TR and Zwift and Sufferfest, although at some point market consolidation will mean that one buys up the others. I’m personally happy to use both TR and Zwift simultaneously.
Not sure TrainerRoad needs to ‘wake up’. They are doing a lot with their core product, and if you want gamification (as I do) you can easily add it in. If you don’t, you don’t.
Without knowing either in a lot of detail, Peleton and Zwift seem to have a lot of elements that would lend themselves to this kind of merger.
I second the adaptive plans.
As a triathlete, they need to start uploading swim/run data to see how that changes people’s readiness to work. Hoping and waiting…
I see a lot of Sufferfest mentions around here, are people seeing that many peers using it, because I certainly am not. My club has 230 users on strava and maybe 1 uses SF, one uses Rouvy, and the remaining people use either zwift or TR. Just curious because comments seem to put them up as a major player but I see them as really minor, and maybe they get a small bump from the whole GCN thing but then when that little period of promo runs out I doubt any buzz will continue
I think people get put off by the name with Sufferfest!
A lot of cyclists fear it’ll be a war every time they climb on the turbo.
Great thread to read. But I’m sure Nate knows his own business strategy.
My take is that TR (and Xert) is competing with low-end coaching. If you race (even if it’s just group rides), then the best value is coaching. TR allows you to self-coach for the basics: understand what you need to do, and give you a training plan accordingly.
Zwift is competing with outdoor riding IMO, not TR. They can tack on training features, but it’s not their core competency.
The opportunity that TR has is to push the limits on what self-coaching allows. And that’s a pretty unlimited opportunity for serious cyclists.
I appreciate this whole thread! I appreciate @Shay_Vansover’s worry and concern for us. I also appreciate everyone “standing up” for us.
I’ve been reading this entire thread and I hear the criticism; you want us to do more.
We’ve got a multi-year plan that I think will put us ahead of everyone else in terms of making people faster. I hope that when it’s completely executed you will look back and understand why we’re doing things in the order we’re doing them in.
I think @stevemz is the only forum user who knows our plan 
. Maybe he can chime in as an outsider and let ya’ll know if it’s a good one or not (but please don’t spill the beans).
It doesn’t help that they chose black, white, and red as their color scheme and Sufferlandria or whatever basically sounds like a neo-Nazi band. 
[I got nothing against the product, obviously, and all this is to be taken as tongue-in-cheek in case there was any doubt]
I must admit, I’m put off by the machismo of SufferFest. All that ‘I will whip my ass today to kick yours tomorrow’ stuff…urgh…
Unless I’m mistaken…
Look at the staff of Sufferfest. One of the names listed (rhymes with ‘Weed Reber’) was one of the original TR founders. Whether you prefer TR, Zwift, Sufferfest, or baked beans, his arrival at Sufferfest (and departure from TR) was instrumental in the advance of their new platform.
I’m certain there’s an intriguing story to be told, but for the time being, the distance between @Nate_Pearson and his original business partner has certainly allowed both platforms to grow in their own exciting and innovative ways.
If TR has done a customer segmentation, “nerdy and scientific” should be the name of one of their segments😜
We call them “Data Scientists”!
Whilst I don’t disagree that the Full Frontal Test is more intimidating than the Ramp Test, it isn’t that much different to the 20 minute test - only a couple of 5 second sprints at the start and a 1 minute effort at the end on top of the ‘normal’ 20 minute protocol.
The point I was trying to make was that by testing these durations specifically, they can make tailored workouts based on (most importantly in my opinion) the relationship between FTP and power at VO2max.
Take a look at this image from the TrainingPeaks Blog:
Some riders have a 5 minute power that’s a greater percentage of FTP than others can manage for 1 minute power.
I don’t think the importance of getting the correct percentages for work done above FTP can be overstated.
How you go about determining that is another topic…
As for the power curve - that is self determining unless you have a power meter that you can use away from TrainerRoad Workouts, or do testing that is specific to determining some of the critical points on the curve.
Mike
More, but don’t rush to deliver before it’s ready, despite the clamour from here and elsewhere.
Nail what you want to achieve and then deliver in spades.
I promise not to spill the beans if you let me in on it too 
I don’t disagree that they’re trying to do something pretty useful, but even with an FTP test there are tons of posts of people who have over or under tested. When you try to test 4 things at once it becomes even more likely that something is going to come out suboptimal. At least when everything is scaled around FTP it is easy enough to tell that your workouts have become too hard/easy and adjust accordingly.
How can you reliably say that your 5-minute power was tested too low?
No one disputes that firms have to make organizational changes when the business environment demands them. But the idea that a firm might want change for its own sake often provokes skepticism.
I’d like to add, I like zwift. I used it for 2 years. I use an old iPad and got by with the occasional stutter in graphics, I used it about 2 or 3 times a week. Unlike a lot of people here, the graphics and game were what interested me.
Then the price went up by about 50%.
My fitness didn’t.
Looking at alternatives and finding the podcast I got a month trial, and switched immediately, saving £5 a month and getting noticeably faster.
I hope I’m not the minority but I like the simplicity and would hate it to change, that would make me leave TR. Since I started a few months back, 4 of my real life riding friends now use TR consistently, 2 are returning customers.
I think TR are doing a grand job
TrainerRoad is cool. It works. i love the simplicity. The guys, especially Nate really interact with the user base. Don’t forget. TrainerRoad grandfathered existing subscriber fees (zwift bumped everyone).
i do think TR need to work on individualization. that is one concept of Sufferfest that is unique and cool.
% of FTP across the board is not the most effective way to train.
But you want to get faster…and with a company that loves its users. that’s TrainerRoad
From what I read in this forum, this ought to be good! 
