The PROBLEM with new AI version… For me

Sure you can. Just click on the workout. Pin is on the bottom of the ride window.

Point I’m

Making is there’s no real way in this version to see what the minor changes are …. Either TR easing you off or making workouts harder…..because unlike the pre ai version it doesn’t tell you that ATM. I have no doubt that it will be like that in the future updates but ATM it doesn’t have that capability. The last version did have it albeit a simpler version and and I think not having it now is a bit of a step back the info is there. Own it it’s all in the background where’s as before it have you that info in the form of choosing to accept or discard it. We don’t need the accept or discard now but it would definately be better to have the ability to know exactly why thesis making the choices it is.

Yep agree with that and I do the same by testing it with adding in what I’m thinking to see what it does. The point I’m making is in this early version of ai TR for me, I’d like it to show me a little more “why” it’s doing what it’s doing. The previous version did that in the form of accept or discard changes which although a simple choice, actually informed you in a way what TR was thinking based on your workouts and RPE.

I think it just puzzles why that relativly easy add in wasn’t added at this update.

Hopefully it’ll come in the future and for me it will complete this iteration of TR…. For the better.

Yes, but that’s not the same point as your summary.

Plus, why would I care what’s changed? There is nothing special about the ‘original’ workout. You’ll still be doing a workout of the same type and length. Look further ahead in your calendar and the plan only has placeholders - no specific workout at all :slightly_smiling_face:

In my broader work around AI I’m learning to abandon the approach we have taken with deterministic systems for so long. You verify the calculations were good by the outcome, not by understanding the operators. AI will see paths forward from data alone, without a philosophy or understanding to justify. The work to generate justification material would take far more compute than the calculation itself.

In short, ask yourself how does this feel? Is my consistency improving? Instead of how does this work in detail.

Probably because the UI for this - showing everything pre- vs post-adaptation - would be a giant mess, since you’d have a 28 day span of adaptations to present. On desktop, with acres of screenspace, this might be merely ugly, while on mobile it could well be unusable.

And, once we’re past the novelty period with this release and everyone’s become accustomed to how it operates, how often would someone (anyone) be going through this pre- vs post comparison examining each change? Probably rarely. So, from a product development perspective, you’ve a ton of work for a feature where usage would quickly tail right off, so it’s an easy decision not to build that sort of thing and focus resources instead on featuress with much a greater bang for the buck / utility / uptake.

This is what I said above too. He didn’t respond, so I want to point it out yet again. Every single time you made the slightest change (make today’s workout 15 minutes longer, accidentally move it to tomorrow, change the rating from moderate to hard back to moderate, close and re-open the app, etc., etc., etc.) it’s going to recalculate the next 28 days. Every day. Every time. And it would have to explain every change to every day every time. It’s just far too much to expect, and honestly, it’s not really useful information.

I’m not saying it’s the case for Bailey, but more generally people are still in the mindset of pre-determined plans will get me from A to B. The questions about what’s changing stem from that.

If you instead hold the mindset, what will make me fitter today?

Then, you don’t need to know what the app thought was a good idea in the past.

The problem in a few threads this weekend is trying to make it fit old ways of training. I have six years of tss based info I used to work with, but I gave that up last year. I did a bunch of analysis and replicated some tss loads and got nothing like previous results - time to move on.

The struggle is for people - myself included - who measure fitness and fitness gains by FTP, what should they do instead? Garmin VO2? Performance? I’m angling towards 10TTs or something similar like a 5k park run for running. 20km on Zwift/Tempus Fugit maybe.

Isn’t it still possible to see the workout that was being recommended vs the one now being suggested, which I think is what Bailey wants?

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen two workouts on the same day in my calendar on top of each other. One the old workout and one a new suggested workout.

I’ve not got any on my calendar at the moment, so not sure if this feature is still a thing.

No, you can’t see that. The problem is that you’d have to display this for all 28 workouts every time one changed, and that’s not really helpful considering how often they can change. The solution suggested was to go pin every workout and then unpin it day of. A bit of a PITA, but it would solve the problem, you just wouldn’t get any commentary on the “why”.

Is this a halfway house?

At least if you get a yellow/red day, or the AI wants to suggest a longer workout, you’d get to pick.

And to what end?

If someone pins a workout on the very first day it drops into the sim window (28 days out), and then unpins it 28 days later on workout day, they get to see the difference in suggestions between those two points. What do they do with that info? Beats me. Maybe it’s mildly interesting to do this for a week or two. How long will someone do this for before deciding it’s all a bit pointless and they’ve better uses for their time? Quite soon I would think!

This discussion is probably a bit academic, as I can’t see much chance of TR implementing anything like that. The LLM route that’s been mentioned as a possibility by TR for posing questions about our training seems more likely, but I also wonder how truly useful that would be in practice.

Im with you :100:. Just trying to find ways to help Bailey get to an acceptable solution while they go through the transition and learn to trust (or not) the new system.

How about a change log for every training day after it enters the AI Simulation window which lists the change and the trigger. Not a serious proposal, but I’d still be kinda curious as to how many entries some of the days would get over the 28 day span :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I think it would be very interesting as a training that you understand why you’re doing and understanding why it’s adjusting is far more productive than a training you just do cos ai says so.

That’s a big reason why my coach has only ever loaded the current week’s plan on the calendar. No looking ahead. Focus on the current week. “Trust the process”.

Just messing around during Beta I’ve taken screen shots of the 28 days just to see what changed as I was doing the plan.

Easier than pinning every workout for 28 days but like AldridgePrior mention, long term there may not be a point to doing this, at least you’ll have a reference.

I suggest the 40k tt.

I jest. And I absolutely don’t care what ftp means, or doesn’t.

I really do think pace is the answer here. Just like in running that’s been used since forever. It’s easy to see if you’re getting faster over time if you just ride the same route over the span of a given time. I can see steady progression in my training and PR’s being set over time and that is undeniable proof that I’m getting faster, which is all anyone who is training seriously should honestly care about. IMO

Also, if you haven’t been keeping up on the podcast and on the many, many threads on here about the new changes, you’ll have no idea what it means to pin a workout. I’m reading a lot of threads here on the forum, and I still am not quite sure what it means to pin a workout.

Pinning workouts doesn’t really fit in with how I use TR, so I’m not really motivated to go chasing that down. My biggest gripe about the new (and improved??) TR is that all the new stuff just seems so opaque. All the changes are either poorly introduced in the app, or I’ve just missed them. It also seems like the kind of thing that should have been announced in a big email that went out to everyone? Maybe I took myself off some list, or it wasn’t sent out to beta testers? I don’t know. But it feels like I’m flying blind sometimes.

@Caro.Gomez-Villafane - I feel like this is good feedback

Have you looked at the FAQs?

https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/sections/360012393052-Adaptive-Training?_gl=1*vpglek*_gcl_au*MTk0MzkyMzE2NC4xNzY2ODYxMTQ2*FPAU*MTk0MzkyMzE2NC4xNzY2ODYxMTQ2