Hello all , new and first post .
Also joined on the strength of this thread .
I am one of the disappointed that would have liked at least a mechanical 12 speed rim braked Ultegra group .
To me it’s remarkably obvious that Shimano tries very hade to drive upgrade paths that force us to buy everything new .
They also deliberately make things different enough that you can’t mix road and mountain components .
Would it have been so hard to have 12 speed close ratio Micro Spline road cassettes with the 10 tooth option ?
I really like SRAMs Red 12 speed cassette options , a 10-26 would be perfect for me provided the derailleur could be mechanical .
In my perfect world something like this with 44/28 chain rings would give the best of 3 worlds .
Close ratios ie 1 tooth sprocket jumps .
44-10 tall enough top end - with little time on the sky is falling in 10 T .
Low enough 28-26 gearing to get my old legs up most hills .
But no - can’t have a practical affordable upgrade path .
I reckon what’s screwed Shimano is the world economic situation that’s priced most of its forced electronic bling out of reach for Joe average .
I hope 105 mechanical sales are huge .
I will be watching the 105 mechanical very closely . If I can find a way to use the rear derailleur with a close ratio cassette then all good .
Also , what we really need is a way to convert the mechanical 11 speed cable shifter to 12 speed . That way we can retain our conventional cable brakes .
I like plain simple light mechanical , not Tossler crap .
If you stick to SRAM, you actually can get just that: Ratio makes an upgrade kit for some of SRAM’s mechanical 11-speed groupsets. So you could actually get the setup you want, albeit with different chainrings up front (44/28 is not sold and I’d be surprised if that were compatible with SRAM road front derailleurs, at least out of the box).
Shimano has an 11-36, HG, 105 level cassette (HG-710). I just bought one and am awaiting delivery.
A 50/34 with the 11-36 is a pretty good “all-road” or “sportive” option if you want 2x, good low end, sensible jumps - particularly if your frame lacks dropped chainstays and/or has a braze on front mech and as such won’t work with the GRX sub-compact options (most endurance road frames fall into this category, such as the Defy advanced frame I’m building up currently with 105 Di2).
I’m interested to see if they really release the 12 Speed Mech version, first I thought it doesn’t make much sense to just make 1 Groupset with 12spd mech, but I assume it will be based of the GRX 12spd that is apparently happening. I doubt they invest in 12spd Ultegra mech, since it gets into price regions where most people want electronic, Highend mech and Rim break are just so niche now, that the big companies probably don’t see enough market to produce that.
So, is this going to be disc only?
I’m interested in a spare set of rim brake/mechanical 105 and am torn between waiting for the 12sp mechanical (if there should be a rim brake version) or buying a cheaper 11sp R7000 on sale (with upgraded Ultegra brifters). With the 11sp, I would use a 11-30 cassette, while with the 12sp a 11-34 cassette (with 50-34 cranks in both cases), which means that I would have almost identical cassettes/ratios, except an extra 34-34 granny gear with the 12sp (the first 11 cogs on the 12sp cassette are the same as the 11sp 11-30). I do ride very steep (16-18%) hills occasionally, so the 34-34 is not exactly wasted on me, but it’s not really a vital necessity either (I can manage 99% of my rides with 54/30-11/30). And the 12sp cassette is around 20% heavier than the 11sp one in this case.
I’m also concerned somewhat about the finicky setup and adjustment of a mechanical 12sp, so maybe staying with 11sp is safer in that regard
Consensus seems to be yes, disc-only.
You should be able to run a SRAM 11–36 11-speed cassette with an 11-speed Shimano RD (without something like a Wolftooth extender).
Bummer So if I want rim brakes, my only option is Ultegra Di2. And if I want mechanical, my only option will be 105 but disc only
Well, everyone thinks 105 12 sp disc only at this stage. Then again - when 105 Di2 dropped, everyone thought there’d be no mechanical 105, so…
Only those under embargo know. And Shimano must have some pretty hot shot greaseball lawyer types because let me tell you, everyone who I know for a fact has any inside info actually go white, look at the ground and shake their head when you grill them about it.
And we still don’t have a release date, right? I remember early '24 or so
I’m amazed Shimano think that there is a market for this.
My read is that the majority of the market demand for 105 12spd mechanical is from OEM customers.
But based on my experiences with 105 11spd mechanical on my travel / backup bike, I’d ride the new stuff without hesitation.
Not 99% of mid-range road bikes though. (But 100% of my bikes are.)
He said he likes the close gear jumps which you don’t really get with the 32 and 34 tooth cassettes. But GRX crank with an 11-30 would be pretty close to what he’s talking about and with an even easier low gear. Heck, even an 11-28 with the 46-30 would be an easier low gear than a 28-26.
As I also mentioned above, the first 11 cogs on 11-34 12speed are identical to the 11-speed 11-30. The only cogs “missing” from it to make it ideal is the 16T.
This just isn’t true. Di2 is almost 15 years old and probably captured 3-5% of the market in the first few years after release. Now with etap and eps I’d bet the market is a lot closer to 25%.
Think of it this way, NBDA says there are 40,000,000 road bikes regularly ridden in the USA. Only 400,000 of those are on electronic groupsets? No way.
It’s an even bigger proportion of new bike sales. The market for new mid-range+ road bike sales on a yearly basis is around 2 million (lets average this from 2018-2022) - Only 20,000 are electronic?
Now, road bikes that exist at all, in totality in the USA? I guess that might be true, but “on the road” implies bikes being ridden and used regularly. Of this population, mechanical has had a falling share for a decade+ and this rate of decline increased in the past 5 years.
thats rough. I paid 6k for ultegra di2 and shimano 105 carbon wheels
Rest in peace rim brake mechanical
Campagnolo offers 12 speed rim brake mechanical in THREE tiers, including the very accessible Chorus level.