good point. I should’ve of said, gravel races in my area (Appalachia - long twisting fast eroded hills) are not won with straight line speed.
The change over to the edges is quite sudden whereas I prefer something more rounded. You have to try these things to see if they suit you/your riding style I guess!
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Yep, I was also going to say that it totally depends where you live. Cornering skill has very little to do with doing well on gravel in MN where I am. Separations come from hills or attrition.
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Exhibit A - LDC
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Pirelli has introduced new versions of the Cinturato H and M tires. The new versions are made in Italy, and take advantage of more sophisticated rubber compounds and casings. The “high performance” versions are said to have quite a bit lower rolling resistance than their previous versions, with 120 tpi casings and the new compound. I would not be surprised if this change makes the Cinturato H tire very competitive with the fastest semi slick gravel tires like the Schwalbe RS. Pirelli’s P Zero TLR RS road tires are among the fastest road tires available, and the new made in Italy versions of the gravel tires appear to be using the road tech (which derives from Pirellis F1 development).
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And…. Vittoria has just announced the new Race versions of their tires. New features include a recycled natural rubber compound, and an all new cotton based casing which Vittoria claims allows for a more supple tire. Vittoria claims these tires will be 7% faster (than what?) and also more puncture resistant. Most interesting to me is the use of the cotton casing, similar to their top level road race tires. This new casing might make these new Race tires competitive…. It will be interesting to see how they test. Between the new releases from Vittoria and Pirellis, it appears that the big tire brands are now taking gravel racing seriously, and introducing tires specifically aimed at being fast for racing. I look forward to seeing the test results for these new tires.
Vittorias Race casing XC tires have proven to be very fast - hopefully the gravel line follows suit.
Happy 2 year anniversary to this thread (well a day late), so much has changed since it started I can’t believe it.
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For $129/tire… yeah no thanks. Good for Vittoria sponsored riders though I guess.
Caracal 45 is likely my next tire, once I burn through this backstock of Terra Speeds.
Same. Mine shipped yesterday (45 mm)
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I finally got the G-one speed 2.35’s mounted up on Zipp 303 xplr’s and they fit fine on the Seigla. Plenty of clearance everywhere except a little tight at the chain stays. Fine in the dry, but I wouldn’t run them in the rear on a course with sticky mud.
They definitely handle a little squirrelly as you referenced, I was running them at 19/20. Very noticeable at first, but not so much by the end of the ride. Most of my time on that bike has been with MTB tires, so I’m not sure if it’s the higher grip of the slick compared to knobs or something else going on. They are big and tall tires, mine measure 61mm wide (brand new at 20psi), so a good bit bigger than the 2.2’s I’ve been running. I’ll probably give them a little more time before bumping up the pressure. Also, I only rode a couple very short gravel/dirt sections, so not sure if it’s just a pavement phenomenon. They feel noticeably faster on pavement compared to Race Kings, but I’m guessing a lot of that is just not hearing the knobs hum (which I kind of missed honestly). I like them enough that I’m getting another set with the 25% off sale at BTD right now. There aren’t too many races I’d consider them for, but I figure they are a better choice for all my road training and group rides on my gravel and XC bikes. Not that much faster than a MTB tire, but hopefully they hold up better to miles on the road.
Plenty of room up front
Seat stay fine
Chain stay pretty tight
Sand buggy vibes
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This was exactly me in my first big gravel race (fast but horrible bike handling). I’d transitioned from rowing to riding during covid. I had a big engine to begin with, then after about 2 years of pretty dedicated (obsessive?) indoor winter training and outdoor smash-every-ride-because-I-hadn’t-cracked-yet, I entered a local race and won, while being extremely uncomfortable in the pack. My second race was a masters championships, and I was a horrible bike handler. I almost caused a crash during a 45km/hr slight downhill descent when I overlapped then bumped wheels… I was lucky to keep it upright, as were the others around me because I’d have taken several of them down with me had I bailed. My group was obviously not very happy with me (or trusting of my ability to not take them out), and rightly so. A few times after the near-crash, I saw a couple conversations which were followed by obviously coordinated attacks trying to drop me, but I was fit enough to stay on.
Addendum Edit:
A couple years later I found myself in the opposite position. There was a rider in my group who was obviously very fit, but all over the road and a danger to everyone. Fortunately for our safety, his energy management was horrible as well; he kept surging then nearly-soft-pedalling when it didn’t make sense, so for an hour or so he’d come and go both up the road and off the back. Eventually he rode away from us all and put 5min into our group in the last 45min of the race.
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Has anyone heard any reports on these? Thinking about grabbing the t30s in 45mm. The t50s could be good too, but I think I might find myself on a bit more pavement coming soon. I generally am 95% smooth fast gravel, might be spending more time on road, maybe more like 1/3 on paved road.
I like em so far. No testing yet. Smooth fast gravel is probably the easiest surface of any to find a really good tire for btw
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I ran the Schwalbe g-one speed 2.35’s in a gravel race today. I’m not anywhere close to race shape, but I figured it was a good chance to test the tires in race conditions and the weather was super nice in central TX today (if anything, too warm). My main questions were how they would handle on loose corners and whether they are too prone to flats for gravel racing. The course was pretty tame, but certainly had some loose corners and some chunky stuff to test the durability (not Unbound/Big Sugar type test, but typical texas gravel).
The cornering/handling was OK. Not as confidence inspiring as something like a Race King, but not sketchier than the typical gravel tire. I ran them at 20/21 psi and didn’t notice any floppy handling that they sometimes exhibit on the road (maybe I’m just adjusted?). And zero flats despite seeing several others dealing with flats today. So, they passed the handling test and they didn’t fail the durability test (with small sample size). Very, very good on the few sandy loose sections we hit. I’m not ready to bless them as a tire I’d run for a high priority race, but I’ll probably run them at a couple races I’ve got on the calendar for early next year. They feel super fast, particularly over the chunk. Nothing scientific, but I averaged just over 20mph on only ~250w NP and had my nose in the wind for much of the day.
One note - when I originally installed them, there was plenty of clearance on my Lauf. After using them outside for a week or so, I pumped them up to ~50psi to use them on my rollers for a zwift ride and they expanded enough that they rubbed on the non-drive side chainstay. I deflated back down to ~20 and they stopped rubbing, but it was pretty tight (they stretched out). I did a quick re-dish of the wheel to move it over 1-2 mm (the old cannondale trick) and it’s good now, but I won’t be pumping them up to 50psi again. Not sure if pumping them up stretched them out permanently or not (maybe would have happened anyway?), but I wouldn’t recommend doing it. I wish they made these tires in a 55, the 60mm+ is tight and the size is overkill for most conditions (particularly with the front suspension).
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Yeah, might be a dumb option, but just experimenting at this point. My go-to tire for my higher priority races is the 2.2 Race King. IMO, they have a great mix of flat protection, traction, and speed. And most of my priority races have a good amount of chunk and technical bits, so MTB tires with decent flat protection are ideal.
With many of my lower priority races on much tamer terrain (and I do all my road training/riding on my gravel bike), I’m testing some tire options that are a bit faster than the Race Kings. The g-one speed pro seems to be one of the fastest rolling tires in every test I’ve seen (on pretty much every surface), so I thought it would be interesting to try. I also have some RS’s in 50mm as another option to test. I figure there is an aero penalty with the bigger tire vs. smaller options and I plan to run some testing for comparison. The other factor I’m considering is sand, a couple of my lower priority races have selective sand/silt sections where I think the g-one speed may be a difference maker compared to more traditional gravel tire sizes/tread patterns. My biggest concern on the g-one speed is flat protection. Even though I’d be using it for lower priority races, I still don’t enjoy messing with flats and potentially getting stranded out in the middle of nowhere. Not sure how to test that besides getting out and racing on it a bit.
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You’re riding the 32mm internal XPLR wheels with those tires, right? I think that would mitigate the oversteering feeling I experienced. Your comments on sand performance are a great point, they would crush deep sand that would challenge a 40 or 45.
On aero, Ben Delaney had a video recently with some aero results from a major tire company. They were somewhat sanitized, given that the tire company didn’t release the full data, but it made it seem as though the aero penalty for tires this big would be 9w or less relative to a 40mm slick. Given that the available rolling resistance testing for these tires shows they likely have more advantage than that 9w, these probably are still faster on balance (assuming no flats, cornering penalties, etc.).
One of my early season races is on similar terrain - fairly flat, minimal high speed turns, average gravel for chunk, and a few soft sandy sections. I’ve been considering these tires for that race, but I think a 30+ internal rim is still a requirement for them.
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Yes.
I think they would be fine on anything ~25mm internal or bigger. Lots of people running 2.4 sized tires on MTB’s with rims around that width.
Has anyone compared the trail and the race versions?
Anyone have any further input for the Race Rapid Dubnital 2.2 compared to the old Race King ProTection 2.2?
Wondering about actual as-measured size relative to each other as well as overall experience, for gravel racing. My last pair of 29” Race Kings is about done and I’m considering if I want to stay with the concept and go to Dubnitals or size down slightly to the 50mm Schwalbe or Specialized gravel tires.
2.2 Race Kings were 55-56mm on i24mm rims - Dubnital about the same or bigger/smaller?