Is a MTB tire the fastest and best tire for Gravel racing?

And he still averaged 331W for almost 9 hours. Absolutely insane.

6 Likes

Yeah, I was assuming he was on the Tracer 50. A nice volume for someone like Sophia of course, but Matt B could have be fitter from something larger. I heard Alex Wild was going to run the new Air Trak 2.2… I guess he is at a different sponsor lever with Specialized perhaps, and not mandated to run Tracers? I would also assume the new Diverge frames would fit a 2.2 if Specialized has any idea of what they are doing, given it is their “more capable” gravel bike.

1 Like

I also wonder how much the possibility of mud had Specialized mitigating risk for their top riders. Even Friday night before the race, I’m not sure anyone had a perfect idea of what the course would bring saturday morning. I went out and pre-rode the first 2-3 miles of Kaw Reserve and Divide Rd Friday night and it wasn’t peanut butter mud, but it was sloppy and certainly didn’t give me confidence that we wouldn’t run into any PB mud on race day. I don’t think anyone got out and could look at that every possible mud section late Friday and the XL riders didn’t see all of those sections. I rolled the dice with MTB tires, but I have good clearance with them. I know at least 2 pros personally (not big names) that would have rolled bigger tires, but were scared about being stopped walking due to clearance. A lot of the current bikes have marginal clearance with 50’s and maybe a couple millimeters when trying to squeeze a MTB tire in. Any PB mud would be an immediate stop without decent clearance.

1 Like

A couple mm of clearance and you’ll likely see some rubbing on the frame due to flexing. (I know I have). Someone like Beers who can put down massive power it may have been an issue.

I haven’t done unbound but are 2.2 an advantage over a 2.0 tire? I get from a volume standpoint but if you are planning on being there in the end they are thinking of a sprint too. But of course you got to get there first.

And as for the specialized riders I wonder why not the terra?

For unbound, the key is staying connected in the selective technical spots and not flatting. For me, a bigger tire is going to help with that. Not right for everyone, but seems like a no brainer for a rider like Beers. He’s probably not going to win a big group sprint anyway and the possible loss of ~15 watts (or whatever) on the smooth/flat stuff to a smaller tire is a rounding error in his FTP. I feel for the guy because he’s definitely got the motor to win a race like unbound, but he’s got to figure out how to keep his bike working and get away. Tough when everyone knows you have that engine.

3 Likes

Rosa Kloeser chose 2.2 Dubs, and chose her bike to fit them…. After last year I am sure she was ready for a sprint finish as well. There are a lot of different ways of looking at this, big tires equals less chance of flatting, big tires will save energy over the course of two hundred miles: perhaps that saved energy results in a more potent sprint at the finish…. I have not seen the math, but I doubt the penalty for a 50 mm tire vs a 2.2 is much in terms of a sprint at the end of a two hundred mile race, being a little fresher could easily outweigh anything else.

1 Like

I’m all for the big tire movement and agree with all the benefits you mentioned. Flats are slow. Not beating yourself up may cost watts but saves them too.

After watching “the cool down” Keagan mentioned the drag and slow acceleration of MTB tires. Also mentioned that 45-50 (for them) seems to be the sweet spot. But those at the pointy end trying to win I guess the risks are worth it.

Seems to be a suggestion that wider tyres reduces the risk of flats. Assuming that those on the wider tyres are selecting fast ones, I really don’t think that’s the case. In fact, I think riders, especially in the elite fields, are choosing their fastest available option, and that’s partly why we are seeing so many flats - it’s almost an all or nothing approach.

I think a slightly more conservative approach with casing selection could pay dividends for a lot of riders. Especially if they end up running buckets of sealant, inserts and ‘double valve tubeless setups with a tube’. Those choices likely make the RR significantly worse anyway.

Honestly, I thought Keegan’s responses were more about towing the line for Maxxis… I wonder how much they might be paying him. Anyway, he is only talking about Maxxis tires, and we should be careful to avoid extrapolating his remarks as if they have anything to do with offerings from Schwalbe and Conti. Acceleration, when it comes to human powered bikes is such a small factor, we are not talking about motorized vehicles here. For gravel racing, how a tire holds speed is hugely more important than a few ms differences in acceleration. Also, if they were so bad, why would he have been riding Aspens all last season??? Quite curious indeed. He ran 50 mm Ramblers for Unbound, that is not a fast tire no matter how one looks at it. On the other hand, I am not trying to suggest that I believe a gravel racer should always run a 2.1 or 2.2, it still depends on a lot of factors. At SBT I plan on running 50 mm G One RS myself, and for that course, 45s would be pretty good as well. I suspect to see some folks on 40 mm road slicks, but IMO that would be a wrong choice.

6 Likes

If you would’ve thought of something that creative in the middle of the race, I’d probably say you weren’t riding hard enough :joy:

Received an email back today and they’re replacing the tire. Functioned fine but at $80-$90/tire, it shouldn’t have that type of defect. Very pleased with the support. Will probably save the replacement for big sugar.

2 Likes

It’s great to have sponsors until you have to ride stuff you really don’t want to ride. I’m not saying that’s the case for Keegan, but I know first hand from a couple pros that they aren’t too happy with the tire size limitations on their current frames. Just to be clear, these aren’t top level pros, just some guys who get bikes from certain unnamed companies and wish they weren’t stuck running skinny tires when there is any risk of mud. I think that’s one of the good things about the privateer model where you can kind of pick and choose your sponsors to a point. But if you aren’t getting big results or have a big social footprint, I guess you take what you can get to make ends meet. Tough way to make a living (or just trying to help fund your side gig).

1 Like

Thanks for the response!

Curious if you have any 45/50mm size Schwalbe gravel tries in the queue to test. If not - I might send you some :eyes:

Thanks again for all your testing! Interesting results on the Enve Hex!

Someone actually put the 50 mm G One RX Pros in the mail to me yesterday!

(Right after doing a 13 hour Unbound 200 on them so they are broken in well, haha.)

45 mm RS Pro might be a good one?

5 Likes

In a bike check video I saw with Hannah Otto for Unbound she basically mentioned that she was running like a… 45? Or something like that and her stance seemed that some of the big tire movement was a bit overrated and not as fast..

I feel like that’s a sponsor statement considering she had major performance losses at sea otter because her tire was rubbing the frame and causing issues.. Of course she’s going to say something like that as opposed to, “I want to run big tires but can’t because my frame.”

2 Likes

That’s a narrative coming from several pro riders right now (including Keegan and Alexey). I don’t know how much of that is real, sponsor directed, or maybe just trying to convince themselves when they don’t have the option, but it’s out there. And while I totally agree that a MTB-sized tire isn’t ideal for all gravel races for all riders, I am convinced that there are many situations where a MTB tire is the best choice. The only real downside I see to a frame that supports wide tires is the lack of support for 2x drivetrain. And as long as the big OEM’s have to keep Shimano on their good side (or Shimano finally embraces 1x for road/gravel), it’s going to be a slow move to 57mm tire clearance in the rear. I think the only brands making a frame that supports 57 in the rear are the brands small enough to not care about pissing on Shimano. And 2 of those brands (Lauf and Allied) don’t even embrace the SRAM XPLR gravel group and spec most of their bikes with MTB transmission groups. Nice to be a small brand that can do what makes sense rather than bend to industry dynamics/politics.

I was looking at bikes pretty closely at Unbound this year, particularly at the start line and the first 40 miles when I was in the lead group (before I flatted). Lots of big tires being run, some on Laufs and Ables, many just squeezed into frames they have no business being in. It likely would have been way more if not for the risk of mud. I was particularly surprised by the number of new Allied’s I saw. Not that many on pure numbers, but we’re talking about a $4500+ frame (and very expensive builds) that launched less than 2 months ago. So, clearly a decent percentage of serious amateurs believe in the advantage of running larger tires and I assume the bike companies are seeing this and trying to figure out a path for when these folks buy their next frame/bike.

2 Likes

Realized I basically just reiterated what I posted earlier about wider tires on the 100 mile course :joy:

Especially from someone like Keegan - he has the watts and the skillset to be there at the end, so I could see him thinking that he needed to choose the best tire for a bunch sprint while being durable enough to get there. Wasn’t the way it worked out, but I could see it for him.

For people like DJ who doesn’t have quite that power, and all us mere mortals, it’s either more of a TT effort or needing all the help we can get to just be there at the end.

One of the reasons why I don’t think advice from people like Keegan and Alexey necessarily applies to us. And anyone whose bike won’t fit large enough tires in the conditions on a specific course I definitely don’t trust.

8 Likes

Yes, but Karolina Migonill (first place women) ran a 2.1 Thunderburt up front, and second place woman ran Thunderburts front and back.

Also we need to take into account that us amateurs likely need a larger tyre than smaller/lighter pros. I must have 30 to 40 kgs more weight than Karolina Migonill. Matt Beers would very likely benefit from a 2.2 tyre.
Maybe tyre size should be proportional to weight. I remember doing some basic science for a wheelchair company on vibration affects. I basically drove a powered wheelchair (to keep power and speed the same as I was not skilled enough to do that with my arms) with an IMU on skinny tyres, then bigger tyres and then suspension based wheels and it was a massive difference when you are sat in the chair with no leg or arm support.
The true answer for gravel bikes may be a lightweight, efficient suspension system with a fast slimmer gravel tyre similar to Rob Britton’s set up (xl winner).

1 Like

They both have frames that can run MTB tires and have in the past on many occasions. That’s different than Hannah who has a frame that can’t even fit the tires.

The only conflict I see with Keegan is that he has a specific tire sponsor that has released a new tire line that I’m sure they want to promote, and that line of tires isn’t mtb sized. Isn’t the new maxxis line limited to 45mm? Can’t recall.