What point is it you think it misses?
Competition I think is the main point for most.
What point is it you think it misses?
Competition I think is the main point for most.
So, Iâve logged into zwift once or twice and noodled around, but never raced or spent any real amount of time in their world. I am interested in eRacing as a spectator, but significantly less than my interest in traditional cycling events. As a participant - I can see it being something I play around with in the future, perhaps as my risk acceptance changes as I become (even) older, perhaps even to the exclusion of mass start events
With that in mindâŚ
It is mind boggling to me that the competitors arenât all forced to use the same equipment - this is a non-sequitur to whether or not he cheated, but I wasnât aware that there were competitive advantages to different bikes in Zwift, I thought it was all cosmetic, so giving them any amount of variability here seems extremely strange to me
Given what appears to be a complete reliance on Zwift and Zwift accounts then it seems fairly clear to me that what he did is cheating and there definitely should be some punishment. Banning and having the title stripped seems fairly consistent with how cycling governing bodies work - which is to say completely inconsistently and in the way that will almost always displease the majority of people (see: U23 worlds)
A stronger system would have had structure in place to reduce the reliance on Zwift, Zwift âleveling upâ and personal accounts such that actions taken in competition are the most important part and this would simply fall under a violation of a code of ethics - perhaps fine worthy, perhaps slightly more
Overall a giant cluster for everyone involved. No one comes out of this looking good. The governing body loses, the racer loses, and maybe most impactful the âcredibilityâ of eRacing loses
I think this hits the nail on the hat⌠for most people, whatâs gonna stick in peoples minds is, that one of the first ever zwift champions was disqualified for cheatingâŚ(whatever the actual details were) really not a good lookâŚ
but on the other hand: about half of the field at the second ever Tour de France were disqualified for taking the train ⌠so I guess cheating is an inevitable part of competition⌠and especially in the beginning governing bodies have the figure out, how to control the million ways to cheat, competitors come up with
As far as I can see his only crime is a lack of integrity.
As far as I know, all the data for the entire series is on Zwift Power. You can probably ID the weight changes and there was some press about it at the time.
It sounds like you are trying to claim that your disdain for virtual competition has a logical basis and not just a matter of taste. And yet here you are participating in a discussion on this virtual forum (a simulation of discussion in real life). Perhaps you are applying Baudrillardâs philosophy only when it suits you?
You are assuming that Baudrillard was only referring to recent developments of 20th century society? Just roll back your context to when writing was a new technology.
I too have certain activities that I disdain, like baseball and american football. However, I take no enjoyment from telling so to people that are interested in those activities.
Have a read:
Racing on Zwift also helped me kick the booze. Destroying myself on the bike and then opening a beer ⌠it started my journey to sobriety. Over 18 months now.
Iâm finding Cameron Jeffers behaviour pretty unwelcoming. If it sounds like a cheat and walks like a cheatâŚ
Too bad he had to go and tarnish the whole ething before it even really got going. Sure turned me off eracing.
Now that heâs suspended for the off-season, maybe heâll pop up on that other infamous cheatâs podcast to compare the size of each otherâs narcissism.
As another astute commentator wrote, Iâd rather tune in for the Microsoft Excel world championships.
The whole concept of Zwift giving you âbetterâ equipment as a result of your usage is already weird enough (and donât get me started on âpower-upsâ), but I guess thatâs what gamification gets you. But to let that concept into serious organized racing? Really?
Road racing has drafting of motorbikes and cars and different equipment too.
Zwift is ultimately a game. Stands to reason it should have game elements, as many or as few as the developers see fit. The greatest esports in the world are fantasy worlds with fantasy mechanics.
If eracing is going to be truly massive, it needs to be more creative, not less so. Regular cycling has poor viewing figures and watching Zwift is significantly less fun.
It needs to explore addictive mechanics and compelling scoring. CVRcade has the right idea by basing the game around esports primarily so that it could be an interesting and easy to follow viewing experience.
They just happen to be completely clueless in executing it. Zwift is far from the final form of eracing but itâs what weâve got in Gen 1, and itâs brilliant for participating. When talented developers take eracing seriously, then they whole thing will blow wide open.
Zwift is just a proof of concept and pushing the hardware development by third parties. The future will be racing indoors to drive incredible fantasy stories across immersive worlds. But just riding a bicycle around? Thatâs as humdrum as it gets in the grand scheme of ideas, but itâs still great fun.
As a general rule, racing on Zwift etc. should have clearly defined rules on what setup (ie, bike, wheels, powerups etc) can be used - it makes for interesting strategic options. If itâs a generally flat course, but with one long climb, do you use the bike/wheel thatâs fastest for climbing or fastest for flat courses? And so on.
I think all allowable bikes should be an option for all riders - otherwise members that newly joined Zwift are at a clear disadvantage.
However - this wasnât the case for this race, in which case riders can choose all bikes available to them, if they were obtained without breaking Zwiftâs ToS. Cameron clearly violated the ToS by using a bot to rack up miles - which means he didnât get the Tron bike (and possibly other bike frames only available at higher levels) legally.
The infraction doesnât need to have anything to do with the outcome of the race to get DQâd - thatâs true for IRL races. For example - two British triathlets were DQâd from a race for holding hands across the finish line. You can be banned simply for missing drug tests out of competition, even if you never tested positive, in or out of competition. So I think Zwift, UCI and BC are correct in drawing a firm line in the sand here. IIRC, using a bot as Cameron did has always been against Zwiftâs ToS, so I donât see an issue with this being applied âretroactivelyâ, although I freely admit that I have yet to fully read up on the timing issue(s).
As I wrote previously on the DCR site: Tron isnât even necessarily the fastest bike, and the differences are minimal (and would largely be negated by drafting etc) so it was a pretty stupid reason to âcheatâ.
I think e-racing is very much a thing - suffering is suffering. Races arenât determined by weather, crashes, âdrafting behind the support carâ etc - massive scope to display rider data that isnât normally available in IRL faces - done properly it could be fun to watch, and fun to participate in (there is a very healthy race streaming community for that very reason). Are there ways people can cheat? Sure - are there ways people can and do cheat in IRL races? Well, dâoh⌠seriously, I donât get the hate directed at e-racing. It may not be your thing, I get it. Golf isnât my thing, but I donât ridicule people that like doing it or watching it.
One word: Wii.
I think youâve made your point.
Oh, doughnutâŚ
For someone whoâs made some great contributions to this forum⌠the posts in here are not among them.
As mentioned above, I will never understand why people feel the need to dump on the choices of others.
Itâs perfectly understandable that eracing is not an activity you want to do, watch and even that you dislike it. But criticizing it, and those that choose to participate and watch it, in this way is entirely unproductive, unnecessary and unbecoming.
Not half as pointed as Jeffers.
But I agree; giving too much airtime to premeditated cheaters is not a good thing.
Agree. The real problem is having the competitions not be completely normalized in the game. Everyone should be on the same bike etc at all times. The power-up randomness was already contenious enough.
Oh, chadâŚ
Itâs not at all about the greater likability of esports. Have it! Have a great time chasing power ups etc. Awesome way to stay healthy. If you find even one example of me directly criticising another TR user for engaging in virtual cycling, please present and I will rescind and apologise.
THIS thread is literally about the eâchampionâ being an echeat (see header). That, and all itâs scope, is what Iâll comment upon.
Didnât take long for my hacker prediction to come into play after the UCI & Z got into bed together. Oops.
Early days, though; maybe in 5 or 10 years once the tech and rules et al have been sufficently upgraded Iâll slap on the ol VR goggles when it turns cold outside.