I had a RaceMax but probably should have went with normal Exploro. I would have kept it if I could run 42s but 38s barely fit and I was not going to run 650bs. I thought about it, almost did it, but sold it and got a previous gen Revolt fitting 45s easy. I’m tempted to buy the new Revolt, but I think we’re going to see some new frames coming out that will do what we all want.
And I was just thinking I’m happy with the bikes I have and don’t need a new one. 
3 Likes
I’ve got a bike I use like this, look at that chainring!
It gets used more like a mountain bike in the summer, but it goes back to a rigid post and I’m looking for a rigid fork for the winter.
2 Likes
I’m somewhat puzzled by the lukewarm reception of the 3T Extrema Italia, looks like what a lot of people want, on paper. Perhaps consumer fatigue or poor release timing during Winter 2023.
I think gravel bikes are going to keep doing what they’re doing - becoming more solidified as the third bike and much stratified within that group. I think we’re at the point where there’s a need for a specific gravel focus personality (-ies), the road/gravel combination up to now can’t really keep up with what’s happening.
Kind of like how there isn’t really any influencers/personalities who focus in depth on road & mtb together, we’ll see road & gravel split apart. Ben Delaney does a great job but the segment is bigger and there’s room for more.
I think The Escape Collective left a lot of money on the ground with their failure to have a Gravel editor for the second year in a row.
3 Likes
100% agree with this…
2 Likes
I’m somewhat puzzled by the lukewarm reception of the 3T Extrema Italia, looks like what a lot of people want, on paper.
The price, for one. Rival/GX on a $9,200 bike is pretty hard-to-swallow and Force/XX SL is $11.6k. Especially when Lauf does Force/X0 on their $4,440 rigid build ($4,800 with Lauf fork).
5 Likes
I would totally consider myself within the target audience of this bike, as a “watt weenie”, former 3T Strada owner, and wide tire lover… The absolute deal breaker for me on this bike and others(Allied Alfa and their prototype wide tire gravel bike) is the proprietary stem. 3T offers two stems that fit on this bike’s steerer, and both are only available in 6d versions. Given their own statements about a more upright/taller geometry, this just would never work for me, even if I sized down to their smallest frame to get a reduced stack, and used a 130mm stem(which they don’t offer).
If you go for frames made in Taiwan, you can get them much cheaper. 3T’s Exploro Primo is very cheap, builds start at < €3k.
A Taiwanese-made Extrema would be great if a plan’s in the works. Currently, I think it’s the only potential competition for the Lauf Seigla in terms of a lightweight carbon frame with huge tire clearance. It’s just unfortunate the Extrema Italiana frameset is over $1000 more than a complete Seigla with Force/X01 and carbon wheels.
1 Like
Hi all,
Long time lurker here, but I find this topic too interesting not to jump in.
A few comments :
First, I think that a good bunch of brands were caught a bit by surprise by the developments in the gravel space of the last 5 months or so. Most were betting on a segmentation of “race gravel” with road like geometries, aero and 40 or 42mm tire clearance, and then “adventure gravel” with 47 or 50mm clearance and a million mounts. They were not expecting that the race gravel target users would be the first to demand 2.2 XC tires on their bikes, I know this for a fact.
About tire clearance and drivetrains, the bottleneck in the current generation of bikes is the consumer expectation of 2x compatibility, somewhat high gearing and a close to road Q-factor. If one can live without these 3, then essentially you buy a XC HT and put drop bars on it and call it a day, so these factors are pretty important differentiators for the segment. The upcoming Sram 13spd will make things a lot easier, ensuring that brands can keep a narrow(ISH) Q-factor, small(ISH) gear steps and put a T-Type chainline on a 142m hub. Expect a lot of 1x only gravel bikes in the next couple of years, write this down.
By the way, that Scott Scale Gravel is just the same frame that they released last year with the rigid fork they launched some months ago, so you can already DIY one
11 Likes
This bears repeating.
The industry has been maddeningly slow; rolling out incrementally larger gravel tire sizes, of worse performing tires. The past several months have seen a large shift in sentiment driven by the racers and end users and is so refreshing.
I do think the handling of XC HT dropbar conversions has been papered over. People rage about a bottom bracket that’s 10mm too high but then are blind to one that’s 30mm+ higher, and the same goes for the reach and wheelbase. Which brings into question the overall geometrical differences and if/how much they matter. I’m hopeful as things iterate and more people are exposed the benefits and costs will be more clearly expressed.
3 Likes
I was riding with a friend the other week and I think he was a bit jealous of my 2.1 mtb tires I put on my gravel bike and how I said it was more comfortable and descents were much less sketchy on the bigger tires. This last ride he brought his hardtail and for him it was a revelation. Granted this is a relatively short route with almost no long flat sections so it’s lots of short punchy hills so a lightweight hardtail does very well. He said he’ll never bring his gravel bike on this route again.
I don’t have a hardtail or xc mtb so I don’t have any knowledge of how those feel over a long gravel route but I can see years down the road when I’m doing fewer long rides that a nice comfortable hardtail would be nice
2 Likes
In my own personal experience trying this out, a hardtail (set up as a MTB) is great on rougher gravel rides when pace is not a concern. Once the ride becomes faster/more competitive, it starts to feel sluggish and the disadvantages outweigh the benefits—except during really rough descents. Then, it is (as your friend described) something of a revelation.
4 Likes
A bit off topic, but you indeed touch a great point here. I always find it hilarious hearing consumers or journalists comparing bike with 0.5° differences of head tube or 5mm in reach. If only did they knew that a ±0.5° tolerance if fairly common in metal frames even for very good factories
3 Likes
Good insight @Arierep. Canyon’s latest model, Kanzo Fast, etc all are in line with the 40 or 42 tire size and road like thinking by brands which is now IMO considerably out of date. Crazy how fast the landscape can change and I think it’s just the beginning. I think we’ll see pretty much all of the hitters at next year’s UnBound on mtb tires if their bikes can handle 'em.
Crazy I was running 38s at SBT back in 2019, 2021 and thought I could run 30s. Now it’s a minimum of 42s and looking to see if 47s will fit in my Revolt.
2 Likes
That makes sense. This route is fairly rough. Not crazy rough but fairly chunky at points, loose gravel, etc. very little “hero gravel”. So if the hardtail is slower it’s not that much especially given it’s just a weekend group ride and not a race.
Definitely for me with my lauf with 2.1 tires I appreciate the comfort and I’m not worried about podiums in races
1 Like
Agreed; the Extreme Italia is a cool bike, and if it weren’t such a premium product (made in Italy using resin injection rather than prepreg layup, $5400 for the frame) I’d be super into it. Hoping they’ll release a frame with similar spec made in Asia in the not too distant.
I own a Seigla, it’s a great bike but basically a light-duty MTB. It’s fantastic for courses/rides that are all gravel or single track, but the suspension isn’t my favorite on the road. Of course there’s a rigid Seigla option, but still not in any way aero.
1 Like
The biggest takeaway for me from riding a hardtail on a gravel group ride was how nice it’d be to have a dropper on my gravel bike (which my current frame unfortunately doesn’t allow).
1 Like
I can definitely see a dropper post being useful. I could do an axs dropper on my lauf but I’m not spending that amount.
For me, AXS dropper has a few benefits:
- The dropper part obviously
- I can activate it in any position, since I just have to press both shifters at the same time. I can do this with my pinky fingers while descending a rocky/bumpy steep section, using the brakes.
- Spare battery storage
- Easy to remove. I have a plastic vacuum extension that a 27.2 post fits in easily. Great way to fit the bike in a smaller space without getting grease on anything.
2 Likes