My issue with Chief has nothing to do with its origin or anything else. It is the way it has been used in North America for over 100 years. In a way I agree about the CEO dropping “CHIEF” is in a way silly. However he is Canadian. We have a lot of racism towards indigenous here and to this day our governments at times still attack them. It was brought to his attention. He thought about it and decided that with the way the word had been used according to himself he decided to stop using it. I applaud him for it. Also He is not A CHEF so then why would he want to be called the CHEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER? That is the word it was derived from… Yes I am being silly. But I am being silly to make a point that it does not matter at all what language or what word a word is based on. It matters what how that word has been used against a group of people that matters. A few posts up a gentleman keeps using the word “INDIAN” to describe his kids playing a game. In my lifetime I have never ever heard someone say “lets go play indians!!!”. Seriously is that a thing? It has no context at all. It makes me think about Ghandi and bollywood movies with great dancing/music, beautiful clothing and gorgeous women. Now if you say “lets go play cowboys and indians!!!” I get it… I understand it when its said. If I read it I think WTF??? There were cowboys in India??? OK? Weird? MAYBE??? HEY GOOGLE …
SO my point is that translating a word or giving me its original definition or giving me its place of origin 300 years ago is basically saying get over it buddy it means XXXXXXXX. By doing that you have just possibly removed a few 100 years of that words racism in a location 10000 miles from where it originated. What is the point in doing it other than to say get over it buddy? If that’s the message I understand it and its that persons right to have that point.
Here is an excellent article that agrees totally with your point of view. It basically says that removing the word chief is almost insulting. Guess what??? A large part of me agrees!!! BUT when you have been to some of these schools that have mass graves of 100’s of children that were raped, murdered, starved and sodomized and you have cried and wept with the people in those communities you get to the point where you will take any insignificant gesture!!!
I just saw a guy took starlink to Northern Saskatchewan for a One Nations school pow wow and broadcast all the events for them. He said it had 130000 people watching.
Ill be heading to Northern Ontario in 2 weeks with starlink to see if i can work remote next year.
The disgraceful thing is that taxpayers have spent billions building broadband infrastructure through fees for service and taxes that are some of the highest in the world and we do not have proper broadband through a good portion of this country. Reserves of course being the worst unless OIL AND GAS OR FORESTRY is there. Then the Government comes up with money.
Previously a few people denied the fact that there are almost 6000 missing and murdered women in the USA. Some here even blamed other indigenous people for this number. It has been documented that the majority of these women have gone missing at the hands of non indigenous people.
Some states are finally accepting the problem and taking steps.
Just because most of society ignores indigenous people and their issues does not mean the people and issues do not exist. Hell… 3 out of 52 states… lmfao
First of all I would like to thank you @FatBoySlim for raising this issue, providing links to articles to educate me on this topic. As a fellow european these issues are very very far away but still I would like to jump into this discussion and ask a question that will be relevant in my future.
Someone mentioned playing “indians and cowboys”. What do you think is the right course of action to take to teach future generations. As I see it now I wouldn’t like my son to play indians and cowboys, nor would I like him to play Nazis and Jews. Or Ukrainians vs Russians.
We were gifted a Tipi for our son. What is and what is not acceptable to play with or to marginalize as childs play? Where do we as parents draw the line for our children? What is deemed acceptable and what is cultural appropriation?
As a young parent I sometimes find it difficult to come to a conclusion. I feel helpless and undereducated on many such topics (so thanks for this whole conversation, I believe I learned a lot). How do we go from here? What is the right course of action to shape the minds of future generations?
I don’t think there is a neat and clean answer here…and I would defer to those who are Native American. But I think if you use the teepee as a opportunity to teach your kids about Native American culture and how they lived, it can be a good thing.
If it is just used as a toy and perpeturates old racist tropes, then I would get rid of it.
On a side note, when the House of Representatives was electing the Speaker of the House recently here in the US, one of the commentators on CNN repeatedly referred to people looking for McCarthy’s “scalp”. Quite disturbing to see it used so flippantly, but it speaks to how insidious these tropes can be. The commentator was using the phrase colloquially and without racist intent…but it nonetheless carries that intent.
I likely would not have even noticed had it not been for this thread.
My angle was probably not transported well. Obviously I want to teach my kid the truth (in due time, he’s 1.5) not the message out of pop culture. When indigenous people deem the wearing of head feathers and the indigenous clothes by white people cultural appropriation where do we draw the line? What is and is not acceptable? I mean they were forced from their land so out of their teepees as well. What is the distinction between the „costume“ and the teepee?
To me it all seems to be that some company profited off of the fact that in pop culture indigenous/native americans and cowboys is a „cool“ and so kids will like the popculture version and parents will buy them this stuff. Should we forbid it or take it as part of a learning experience? I find that difficult to judge as a) this conflict is so far away from where we are in the world and b) it has been „washed out“ by popculture so far as we deem it „cute“ to have as an item of furniture much as a racecar bed or some form of castle to climb on. I hope you get what I‘m trying to say…
I don’t see the issue here. Just treat it as if you had received some “tent” to play outside. No need to orchestrate re-enactments to just use the object. In the US people routinely use these as shelter in State Parks.
yeah, I completely get where you are coming from…and I think it is a very thoughtful position, especially given your distance from the Americas.
Agreed…but that ship has sailed. Nothing you can do about it now, so don’t worry about it. The only thing you can change is how you address the situation.
I would land on using it as a learning experience…with one major caveat - how accurate is the teepee? If it is nothing more than a cultural stereotype, I’d probably ditch it while also explaining to your kids why you are doing it.
Regardless, I think your openness and awareness is great to see.
I appreciate your great response and you have raised some great points.
“Indians and Cowboys” is a interesting topic… In my opinion I think its ok to play. Give them some back story. Give them some information. It is play… But then Nazis and Jews… Definitely not ok in my opinion… But what is the difference? I am part Indian (indigenous) and I am comfortable in our history. I am not comfortable with the holocaust… Even though they are quite similar as Organized bodies (governments) tried to eradicate a race of man… UGH…
TIPI that is awesome! Enjoy the heck out of it.
As for the future… Its really hard when you still have governments attacking Indigenous rights and are still in a way trying to eradicate indigenous rights. Canada (my home) is one of the worst offenders still. USA not much better.
Change takes time. My kids generation seems better, My grandkids hopefully more so… However with the Ultra Right you never know.
It is amazing how racist language about “INDIANS” is so mainstream and well accepted in the highest levels of media. It really is sad and makes sense why it is so accepted in the cycling industry!
Thanks for pointing it out,.
I think we should remove children from the discussion and I know that sounds strange. Children are innocent and they learn what we teach them. Kids at halloween its a costume. They are dressing up and having fun… I fully support it… But lets say BLACK FACE for a kid at halloween I feel is not right… I dont know the difference but one I am comfortable with and one I am not. Might be that I am Indian and not Black so I feel the right to be comfortable with one. However an adult doing the same I am comfortable with neither. Reason is an adult should know better. An adult I cannot right off as being innocent. An adult you never know what their motivations or intentions are. I guess I am being AGEIST now? I also know that kid will not get dressed up, get hammered and act like an asshole in a headdress.
Only issue I have with it is that ship CONTINUES TO SAIL… Does not matter if its CNN, Eurosport and the TDF or calling bikes savage or taking scalps.
Because of a thread here I have removed the term “Grandfathered” from my vocabulary… I used it out of ignorance. I removed it out of respect. Seems it should not be that hard for indigenous issues.
Yeah, allow let me clarify that…that ship has sailed in regards to this one situation. The teepee has been bought and the money has already exchanged hands. That doesn’t mean that it should not be a consideration moving forward.
I am definitely not suggesting that we just accept that companies are selling inappropriate items moving forward.
I experienced racism first hand. So it’s kind of a sensitive topic to me and I want to parent my kid in a way that he himself will be sensitive to such issues as well. As a young parent (I could be your son, @FatBoySlim) I find it sometimes difficult on where to get guidance. My father, an immigrant himself, was a bigoted racist, which I find kind of ironic. So when I saw this thread I took it as a learning opportunity to use for myself.
It is important to raise the issue that OP did. But I find it as important to discuss on how to better the next generation. Or the population as a whole. What can an individual do towards a better less bigoted, racist society.
Well I am a ***ist as well… Depending on the day I am a different type of ***ist. Some days I am a little bit sexist, some days a little bit racist (especially against my own people). Some days I am just a idiotist. Every day I try harder to be a better person but some days I am more successful than other days. Some days I fail completely.
Then there are people like my motherinlaw who is a Roman Catholic to the max and really has nothing good to say about indians (North American Indigenous). She is incredibly racist. My wife recently told me how much it bothers her that her mother is that way… I said what’s the big deal, she has always been that way since you were born and now your 50. My wife said that its hard to listen to her talk that way about her husband and kids that way. ERR… We are Metis I had never really thought of it that way. Is that me being racist as I am not fully indigenous??? Now I don’t put up with any of that with her. It does not matter where it is from church to the Christmas dinner table.
I have tried to educate my mother in law on Indigenous issues but in a way she is like a holocaust denier and ignores the 125000 Indigenous children kidnapped from their homes in Canada where over 20000 thousand of them were raped, tortured, starved and murdered. She has openly stated that residential schools were good for indigenous people. She ignores the 7 generations of family and community destroyed by that system and the problems that exist today because of it.
Through dialogue we all learn. We can strive to be better. The first finger I need to point at is myself. I know who I am and I know I have serious issues. The only way we can change society as a whole is one person at a time.
I am sorry for you that you have a MIL that seems too far gone. Personally, I see no point in arguing with people like these. My grandmother in law is one such person as well. She’s convinced that Covid was a plot by the “elites” decided at the WEF in Davos in 2014 or 15 (she can’t remember…) and the vaccines will terminate a big portion of society over time (“you’ll see”) and only the “enlightened” people without the vaccine will prevail. Too far gone… As it sounds is your MIL when she is racist towards her SIL and her own grandchildren.
If at all possible steer clear of discussions on that particular topic if at all posssible with your MIL. I certainly don’t engage in such conversations with my in laws anymore because there is just no point and in the end everyone is kind of pissed at each other. If she is otherwise kind to you and your kids try and swallow that pill. If not maybe consider cutting contact if your wife agrees (as she seems hurt by her mother as well). Just bad vibes all around. Don’t need that in your immediate family life.