Cultural appropriation and open racism in the cycling industry

NO IDEA! Look at the terrible things that had to happen for BLM to get respect, visibility and publicity.

It seems the media completely ignores indigenous issues.

One example.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/california-crisis-missing-indigenous-women

As of 2016, the National Crime Information Center has reported 5,712 cases of missing American Indian and Alaska Native women and girls. Strikingly, the U.S Department of Justice missing persons database has only reported 116 cases. The majority of these murders are committed by non-Native people on Native-owned land.

That’s as of 2016. How many in 2022? Canada is the same.

The tv series Yellowstone has even covered this issue.

The numbers from when I was in college 20 years ago were appalling. Longmire and Yellowstone discussed the issues.

Is there a lobbyist type group that makes an impact?

Lobbying takes a lot of money as you are usually lobbying against multi-national corporations that have incredibly deep pockets.

The system has failed ALL the people. Lobbying is legalized bribery. Who is going to listen to a few tribes with a pittance when one company can give just one senator or congressman a few million dollars or give all of them Millions of Dollars.

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Thank you for posting these @FatBoySlim. Really helpful in educating myself about this.

I appreciate the approach you’re taking. Please help us to stay engaged on things like this!

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Anything good is related. Thank you for sharing!!!

This was also positive that I already shared.

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I had no idea until your post about scalping and actually always thought it was completely the other way (that Native American Indians did the scalping). I’m a bit embarrassed to say, and only mention it to agree with your point that I imagine he doesn’t, or didn’t, know it’s significance.

I bet he’d be apologetic and would remove it from his vocabulary if he knew.

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I have heard him use this term in the past as well. I did not pick up on it at that time

I have contacted him directly and will wait and see.

I did post it on gcn racing/eurosport and was met with scorn/disrespect and insults.

Carlton Kirby said

“The trophy cabinet on this little climb… SCALPS TAKEN by Mikel Bjerg continues to need more room”

This statement makes me think he understands exactly the meaning of the word “scalp”. But that is my bias and perspective talking.

The word “scalp” has a racist history as white settlers regularly cut off pieces of Native Americans’ heads after killing them. The body parts were later publicly displayed as trophies and as scare tactics to other tribes to subject themselves to white supremacy.

Ignorance is not an excuse!

This reminds me of the term that had racist connotations that was used in the membership discussion. I had no idea of its meaning. It is a term that I can never remember using but I know I did. I told my wife and kids about it and apologized for using it with them. Educated them on its significance and have removed it permanently from my vocabulary(I hope).

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That dissappoints me that you didn’t receive immediate apologies/at bare minimum a level of shame/reticence.

I apologise for my ignorance if that has offended you, that wasn’t my intent.

It’s not a term that I use, but I certainly wouldn’t knowing what it means.

My apologies to you!!! You did not offend me at all and I am sorry that you felt that way! I appreciate your input on the topic!
You have nothing to be embarrassed about!!! We all got our education on the matter from John Wayne movies and history books written by the victors or conquerors.

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This thread defiantly shines a light on a HUGE blind spot. I had a class at work called “Dialog across Differences” and boy howdy was it an eyeopener. It really did expose unconscious bias in a way that wasn’t preachy but was super valuable.

I personally don’t care for the term “woke” but the flip side of it seems to be living in whitewashed blissful ignorance that in prevalent in the “it’s all about me” culture we have today. Things aren’t going to get fixed overnight, but acknowledging that things aren’t right today and haven’t been right for a long time is a good first step so long as we keep making steps.

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I think we need to learn to listen to people without judgment and by trying to understand. Just because someone says “scalping” or other terms, doesn’t mean they are bad people. Even if they resist change at first and say that it isn’t offensive.

I try my best to listen to understand people and it isn’t easy at all! I still fail.

Nobody thinks they’re the bad guy. People always feel they are one of the good guys and if someone is offended by them they just don’t understand. Its probably true. I try to tell myself that when I get into discussions with people. It helps.

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What was said in my opinion was much more descriptive. “The trophy cabinet on this little climb… SCALPS TAKEN by Mikel Bjerg continues to need more room”

This to me goes beyond the word as it suggests the taking and displaying of for honour. That is exactly what was done to indigenous peoples. Its about respect and this shows none. Would a lynching be acceptable in the same kind of sentence? Or how about lets kneel on their necks till they cant breath.

I am not trying to offend anyone so my apologies if i did. I am just trying to understand points of view and educate myself.

Also if I would have had one reply from gcn, eurosport, discovery or Carlton Kirby I would feel a bit better.

But then I am in covid lockdown stuck in my bedroom as my family does not want to be near me and catch covid… So right now I am just going to be pissed at the world :wink:.

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I understand your point… but even as said in this thread, many people thought natives took scalps.

Poor choice of words? Yes. But it doesn’t mean they are bad people, just misinformed. It doesn’t mean that they don’t care about indigenous people, or that they meant taking those scalps. They were just using what they thought was descriptive language.

The moment we start accusing people of the worst, then they get offended and push back hard. This is why you have this huge polarization in the world right now.

And you do not offend me! I love other points of view. The only time I get offended is when someone attacks my character instead of the content of my message, or is looking to argue and has no intention on coming to an understanding.

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Another interesting article from an indigenous perspective. This is just a starter article. I found this by googling the word “CHIEF”. A word that is used on this board.

https://www.insider.com/native-american-offensive-racist-things-2020-1#im-not-indian-im-native-american-indigenous-or-first-nations-4

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-why-i-decided-to-take-the-word-chief-out-of-my-ceo-title-to-respect/

https://www.twincities.com/2020/06/18/citing-concern-for-indigenous-people-duluth-moving-to-drop-chief-from-city-job-titles/

https://www.wired.com/story/tech-confronts-use-labels-master-slave/

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On the whole master/slave terminology in tech, it is a big job to change this. This terminology is used in a variety of technical specifications, some old, many committee based. Things like this take a log of time and effort to change. Code that implements these is usually easier to change, but this presents problems with the code now using different language than the specification. There is no consensus, or industry clearinghouse for standardizing new language, so now you have many different organizations creating their own, unique terminology to replace master/slave in different contexts.
For instance, the IEEE-1588 standard from 2008 uses master/slave extensively. A recent technical presentation I watched on this standard transitioned to using leader/follower for most of the presentation, which worked fairly well, but it took me a little while to be sure what they were talking about, because now they are describing important details of a technical standard using different language. Hopefully there will be some consensus alternatives that become dominant.

Just my opinion here. I read all the articles you posted, except the one from twin cities.com that wanted registration.

Besides the first one, which I can get behind the idea that redskin is a slur, these rest seem like solutions looking for a problem and people going out of their way to virtue signal.

Master / slave, the woman “flipped out”? When she read it? Shows that she is totally overreacting to something she knows nothing about. And then even after admitting her ignorance she doubles down and says it should be changed anyway in case it offends someone?

And the chief? This is now offensive or appropriation of culture? Then indigenous people shouldn’t say mayor. That’s an English word.

Come on people. There are a lot of legit things to be offended by in this world, like starvation, corporate slavery, sweat shops, third world countries. And this is what is important to these people??

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REDSKIN. Its quite simple really… My peoples skin is not RED! Although after a bad day in the sun certain parts of my skin can be bright pink. :slight_smile:

Redskin is a slang term for Native Americans in the United States and First Nations in Canada. The term redskin underwent pejoration through the 19th to early 20th centuries[1] and in contemporary dictionaries of American English it is labeled as offensive, disparaging, or insulting.

The origin of the choice of red to describe Native Americans in English is debated. While related terms were used in anthropological literature as early as the 17th century, labels based on skin-color entered everyday speech around the middle of the 18th century. “At the start of the eighteenth century, Indians and Europeans rarely mentioned the color of each other’s skins. By midcentury, remarks about skin color and the categorization of peoples by simple color-coded labels (red, white, black) had become commonplace.”[2]

Although term has almost disappeared from contemporary general use, it remains as the name of many sports teams. Most prominent was the National Football League team in Washington, D.C. After decades of resistance to change by the owners, management and fans; major sponsors responded to calls to end systemic racism in the wake of the murder of George Floyd by advocating a name change. In July 2020 the name “Washington Redskins” was retired and temporarily replaced with “Washington Football Team”, the new name “Washington Commanders” was announced on February 2, 2022. While the usage by other teams has been declining steadily, 38 high schools in the United States continue to be redskins. School administrators and alumni assert that their use of the name is honoring their local tradition and not insulting to Native Americans.

History of the Washignton Redskins
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-brief-history-of-the-word-redskin-and-how-it-became-a-source-of-controversy/2016/05/19/062cd618-187f-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html

As far back as 1972 indigenous leaders were asking for the team to change the name

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2013/12/why-is-the-word-redskin-so-offensive/comment-page-1/

I have to disagree with you on this. Don’t look at the articles as a one off looking for an issue. Look at the big picture of how indigenous people after a few hundred years of a policy of extermination are now not even acknowledged as a part of society.
There has never been a indigenous President or Vice President, There has never been a Indigenous member of the Supreme Court. There have been very few indigenous Governors.

Look at Canada where the residential school system DESTROYED 7 GENERATIONS of indigenous families. That is 7 generations of children being tortured, murdered, starved, raped and sodomized. What do you think that does to a society?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/canadas-residential-schools-were-a-horror/

https://nctr.ca/education/teaching-resources/residential-school-history/

More than 150000 indigenous children were taken from their community. What would be the effect if that happened to one generation of your family Varmstrong? Now expand that to 7 Generations. I was born in 1969. I could have easily ended up in one of these residential schools. But I grew up in a white city with white Irish Grandparents on my Mom’s side. On my Dads Indigenous side 3 siblings commited suicide and 2 ruined there lives with drugs or alcohol including my Father. My Dads Father and Grandfather were ripped off by the government, ran off their land, moved to what is now Jasper National Park and were then burned out and hunted.

The last residential school in Canada closed in 1997. If I was born one generation earlier my 3 kids could have ended up in one of those schools.

It is estimated over 25000 children died in these schools as wards of the government and the church’s. Experiments on starvation were conducted on these kids.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10758517/How-thousands-indigenous-children-died-Canadas-residential-schools.html

In 2022 a good portion of Canadian Indigenous people do not have clean drinking water? It is estimated that 52% of American Indigenous people do not have clean drinking water or sanitation. Now you may blame the tribes for this and their system of Government. Realize their system of Government was forced upon them by the white man. Not surprisingly many are just as corrupt as state or national governments.

If this article here does not make a point then we should just stick our heads in the sand and …

Native Americans today face some extraordinary challenges. These statistics from the Urban Indian Health Institute were compiled from a survey of 71 U.S. cities in 2016. The numbers speak for themselves: Native American women make up a significant portion of the missing and murdered cases. Not only is the murder rate ten times higher than the national average for women living on reservations but murder is the third leading cause of death for Native women.

“…murder is the third leading cause of death for native women.”

https://www.nativehope.org/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-mmiw

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/5/us-canada-commemorate-missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women

It seems the US government contributes to the problem.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2021-11-01/the-link-between-missing-indigenous-women-and-missing-data

If the fact that American and Canadian Indigenous have never and do not have clean drinking water in 2022 and the fact that Murder is the third leading cause of indigenous womans death not make a point then I dont know what does.

What would happen to America if the third leading cause of death for white woman in America was murder?

https://www.aspeninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/files/content/images/Fast%20Facts.pdf

This report states that the federal Government only meets 52% of Indigenous health Care needs.
Challenges in Indian Country As a result of historical trauma, chronically underfunded federal programs, and broken promises on the part of the US government, American Indians and Alaska Natives experience many health, educational and economic disparities compared to the general population. The poverty rate among AI/ANs in 2009 was 23.6% (2009 census), and 32.4% of the under-18 AI/AN population lives in poverty (NCAI Policy Research Center). Average AI/AN household income is $33,300, while the national average is $46,200. According to the 2000 Census, Indians living in Indian Country have incomes less than half the national average (Duthu, N. Bruce. American Indians and the Law, New York: Penguin Group, 2008. Print. Page 118). 24.1 percent of AI/ANs lack health insurance coverage (2009 census data) and rely solely on the Indian health system. This is one factor leading to major health disparities among the AI/AN population: o Alcoholism mortality rates are 514 percent higher than the general population. o Suicide rates are more than double, and Native teens experience the highest rate of suicide of any population group in the United States. o Diabetes incidence is 177 percent higher, with the highest rate of type 2 diabetes of any specific population in the U.S. o Tuberculosis incidence is 500 percent higher. The national graduation rate for American Indian high school students was 49.3 percent for the 2003-4 school year, compared with 76.2 percent for white students. Just 13.3 percent of Native Americans.

The bicycle industry is just a microcosm of society in General.

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See brother, but you do agree with me.

For one, I agreed that redskin is a pejorative, and a slur.

Two, the points you’re bringing up about forced government, drinking water, murder, rape, missing people… totally legit! But the articles you quoted earlier that I replied to are feel-good bullshit by white people that gloss over the true atrocities against your people.

Who gives a fuck if a CEO decides not to say “chief”? How does that help with the concerns you’re talking about? It doesn’t. It just makes that virtue signaller feel good and self-righteous

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Yup. I misunderstood completely! I would like to blame this covid brain fog but its just me being me.

I actually Care that he removed the word chief. It sets an example. Maybe others will follow and if not maybe others will just think about it. Its been a few 100 years of a policy of extermination. If one person changes their view then maybe they will tell 2 friends… And so on… And so on…

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You want to cleanse language of all cultural references to non-white ethnic groups?