Yeah, please cut the snark, snipe and back biting.
Post with respect or don’t bother.
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That doesn’t make it less of an issue. Accusing people anonymously just continues to fuel the problem of anyone who is better than me must be cheating.
Some of the responses you are seeing are from people who have done or do more than just ride a bike and understand that just because someone builds muscle that your body may not easily build doesn’t mean they are using anything illicit.
No, but at the same time you also have to trust perceptions of other people that it could potentially be a doping issue. You weren’t there and neither was I, but you’re effectively saying the guy is a sore loser and falsely accusing someone else of doping because he got beat in a race and his ego can’t handle it.
I don’t know if the suspected athlete was doping or not, but it definitely happens.
On the other hand, like Kurt just said, it’s not always about fitness but race craft. I just had my first road race. I got 3rd in cat 4/5 masters out of like 15. We were minutes ahead of the rest. BUT, my fitness was there to crush the other two in my breakaway. They were just smarter, more experienced racers.
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If people are going to hide under I didn’t accuse you,. didn’t name names and I didn’t say that… then well I didn’t accuse him it was a blanket statement about certain types of people who might do that…
Here are 3 quick examples in this thread of comments about esteem and ego… they aren’t the only ones. These were posted with no issue for some reason despite saying things along the lines of what I did just to the opposite parties…
“If someone is in a masters race and cheats to do better, honestly I just feel bad for that guy. Imagine what kind of messed up existence you have to lead to do that.”
“Is cheating to satisfy a fragile ego better or worse than cheating for money?”
“People who dope and race amateur bike races have a very low self esteem. Sad for them.”
One of the people who made the above comments then later accused another user here of pushing pharmaceuticals…
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to be fair, these comments are only talking about the egos of those who cheat. Its not an unfair comment to make. Cheating to win is about satisfying your ego.
I’ll take it a step further and say competition is probably mostly about ego in the first place. We all feel good when we win. Podium ceremonies are there for a reason. Taking a win feels amazing.
That said, if its so amazing you are willing to do anything, including cheat, to get that feeling, thats when you have a problem.
100% agree.
Just don’t think we should be looking at peoples quads and abs and immediately pointing fingers at them simply because they have a body type we don’t understand.
Bike racing is mostly non existent where I live and I do triathlon. I’m positive there are people on the podiums doping, never stood and thought it about anyone specific individual but I know they exist. I’d also be willing to bet that there is a higher percentage of people finishing at or near cut off times that are on banned things just to live and have no idea that they are technically breaking the rules. That doesn’t mean the second group is ok, but no one seems to care since they aren’t beating people.
It could be laziness. If you say, “I really, really want to win,” people are ok with that. So let’s say you put in 6 months of intensive training, huge hours on the bike, and get the win. Or you dope and train, but not as much, and still get the win. Same outcome, one is a lot easier. Some people would look at that and think, why put in double the training when I can just take this drug and get the same result?
I would also say it’s not always an ego thing. Say you have a YouTube channel or similar and a following that generates you money. Winning is going to have a financial benefit apart from just wanting to win. So you have a way to take drugs and get better results, bringing in money and/or sponsors. Even if you’re not racing, doping to get some big KOMs could help your “brand.”
Plus, let’s not act like even the clean racers don’t have the same ego. Just because you’re not doping doesn’t mean your ego isn’t stoked by a win. You can look down on people doping and think they must have mental problems or low self esteem, but they just taking a different route to the same outcome we’re all going for. I’m not condoning it, I’m just saying they look at the situation differently. Probably wondering why people would choose to race clean when you can take a drug and get better results. Probably place doping at a different spot on the “morality” scale as well. It’s not hard to look at the world and see countless people doing whatever it takes to get an edge.
Just my 2 cents.
For those who are under the delusion that people don’t use TRT specifically for performance to help bike racing I can name 10+ masters riders here in my city who race or raced while using. Long story. I didn’t go searching or anything but, before I knew about this ring and the Doctor they all use I too was blissfully unaware. It still blows my mind how many are using. This is one state in the USA. No idea about other states or countries. Perhaps my area is unique but, somehow I doubt it.
Anyways, these guys don’t deserve to be where they are. They just get in the way. They take was is not theirs to take. I can’t stop it. But, I don’t have to like it or support it. And for those saying it doesn’t matter you’re the problem.
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And? It doesn’t bother you that someone can put in much less effort but win because of cheating? And regarding financially, cheating to make money?
I specifically addressed this:
I am not really sure what your points are. Are you saying its ok to dope because of the above reasons?
I dont think people are a problem, we are all here to talk and understand other better, if your view point is different I hope to get a better understanding from you.
I know a masters racer who is on TRT and he has below average results and numbers.
I find it bizarre that we’re still arguing about this.
Masters racers will all be facing an inevitable decline in abilities. That’s why we have age group categories. Duh!
Anyone who takes testosterone to try wind back the clock and then races in age group categories is a fraud, a cheat, and franky an utter ****
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But ego is not what people are taking issue with clearly. People have many motivations to win but the issue is if they extend that to doping.
“ Probably place doping at a different spot on the “morality” scale as well.”. That’s a kind way to say cheaters.
If people are taking substances banned by race organizations to improve their performance I really don’t care how they view it. They’re cheaters. It’s not that complicated.
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I’m not harping at anyone here directly including you @ABG but, if people are going to write that taking PEDs is ok I’m going to oppose that view. If people are going to keep writing about the one masters they know who takes X and still gets crushed I know many who are at the pointy end of BWRs, Nationals as well as other sanctioned off road and road events. I also know a few who will never win a local race. But, for sure people (in this example the masters I know who dope) are the problem. Doping has for sure elevated their game.
Like doping, if I cut a line in front of you it’s really not a big deal or life altering. But, it’s not right. I’m still going to compete. Still have to wait in line but, I don’t think I should accept/condone/approve of childish behavior, cheaters, and bully’s as one person living in a civil society. This happens to include doping.
While I agree it’s good to keep talking here my viewpoint is just as valid as the next and I feel it’s important to stand up for what I think is right. Others have expressed the opposite view. I don’t agree but, I’d never suggest them not speak their mind.
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I don’t understand the debate here at all.
People are choosing to compete in events with specific rules. They can either follow the rules or not, but if they don’t follow them then they are in the wrong.
If you want to take a supplement that is prohibited by the rules, then either don’t take the supplement or don’t participate in events with those rules.
By all means, if your quality of life is going to be dramatically better on that supplement, or if it will make you a healthier person then go for it. Just don’t participate in events where it is against the rules…
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So. Literally left my urologist a few hours ago. TRT came up and I said I wouldn’t consider as a cyclist period.
He said ‘gee. I see a lot of you bikers. Your the first to mention it’s not allowed. ‘
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To be perfectly honest, no. I don’t really care. But that may just be my personality. I don’t really care what other people do (extends to outside bike racing but I’ll stay on topic). Do I want to win? Of course, that’s why I race. But if they doped and beat me. Meh, I’m not going to dwell on it. And I’m certainly not going to second guess everybody that beats me and wonder if they’re doping. Maybe some would say it’s naive but I tend to give most people the benefit of the doubt.
I guess I’m trying to see why people dope and I don’t think it’s ego every time. Maybe in some instances but I wouldn’t say that’s always the case. Or maybe we have different ideas on what an ego is.
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It doesn’t surprise me but there are also a ton of cycling events, especially small gravel events, who, as far as I know, aren’t adhering to any sanctioning body’s rules. And I doubt anybody cares.
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I am going to continue to assume everyone is not cheating.
I think what people need to remember is that acknowledging that doping exists and expressing disapproval doesn’t mean I think that everyone is doping.
My personal aspirations are high anyways… higher than I can reach I am sure, but I’m going to keep trying. If someone beats me in a race doping or not I still haven’t reached the level I’m trying to reach anyway.
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No. I’m a surgeon.
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I’m not certain it’s always ego. I’m sure it is for some.
But for some it’s just a matter of enjoying your training.
What frustrates me right now is my running. I used to be a decent runner. I love running and I loved doing the training. Looked forward to a tough threshold run or hard interval run. Now my Achilles kill me for 2 days if I go faster than 8:30 pace or go longer than 8 miles. Every once in a while I say F it. I do an interval session and take off from running forcefully for 2-4 days and I just want to run.
I can see someone going through that turning to trt. They may not even care about the race since they are 50-150th in their AG. It’s just they want to enjoy the sport again before they can’t at all in another 10-15 years. Throw in loss of libido and looking decent in your clothes again.
I can sympathize with guys who take them. I understand them. It’s not always black and white about racing.
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