He also went from a 28mm (maybe a 30mm tire) to a modern 34mm tire and stated he has rough roads. Maybe he also went to modern tire pressures, but that is unknown to us.
Lots of variables here with no hard repeatable (controlled) data - none the less good job and enjoy your new bike and keep up the good work!
What’s the segment name so we can look it up?
I doubt it’s as aero as the supersix that is a gen3 2022 frame so pretty aero.
Tyres are always GP5000s used to switch between 28-30s now on 32s which all measure 2mm wider on my wheels
Why?
Trek say their new domane has been wind tunnel designed. It only has to fit you slightly better than the cannondale to be more aero.
We have no way of knowing which is more aero till you test them both properly.
But saying one of two non aero frames is less aero than the other doesnt make sense.
Without quoting any irrelevant outdoor segment times I can confidently say my Gen 7 Madone aero bike feels considerably faster pretty much everywhere than my old Emonda SL non-aero bike, and the faster you go the faster it wants to go. It also seems easier to stick back to the back of the group ride after a turn on the front, and the position (sure you can probably replicate this on an old bike) likely is responsible for much of the speed. The bike is also amazingly stable in the wind, more than my old Emonda was which is still surprising to me. I’ve ridden my old Emonda again since selling to a friend and it just doesn’t feel as quick, even if I force myself into a faux-narrow handlebar position to mimic the Madone.
IS IT actually considerably faster? Maybe, maybe not. This might be the same type of feeling people get on snappy lightweight bikes, that also don’t actually go uphill considerably faster than something even 1kg heavier
i mean, thats the main thing with an aero bike, it really kicks in when you go faster. The faster you go the more wind resistance, the more importance an aero bike has compared to a non aero bike.
If I compare my endurance rides at low intensity the aero bike (canyon aeroad 2024) and my ‘old’ van rysel (2021 endurance model), it isnt a big difference. Like maybe 1/2km/h.
But on my fast rides (tempo/treshold) holy shit. The moment you go beyond 30km/h it becomes such a massive difference. I think sometimes (headwind) as much as 3/4km/h.
I have to say though, a lot of these differences I think you can negate if you just put a fast wheelset on an endurance/non-aero bike… they already make a big difference.
Probably right. Worth mentioning that my Emonda did have an integrated (but non aero) cockpit and 50mm Aeolus wheels (17.5 IW 27EW) with 25mm tires measuring 27, while the Madone has an integrated aero cockpit and a 3 generations newer version of Aeolus 51mm wheels (23iw 31ew) with 28mm tires measuring almost 31. I think the wider tire and subsequently lower pressure also helps make the bike feel faster too since it tends to glide more over less than ideal pavement.
I don’t know how many people watch or buy into anything from the Nero Podcast but Jesse got a Chinese do it all frame and did some time comparisons to his old TCR with equally narrow bars and deep wheels on a loop he’s been doing for years and it was something like 20w savings.
Personally I don’t race but I do like to KOM hunt and on many segments I do get to average the 40-45kph that they’re using in marketing (and often more on flats) and when I’m doing 7-8 min efforts at 115-120% FTP being able to save even 10w is a big deal. It’d take a lot of work for me to add 10w to those efforts
Unpopular opinion: the Tour magazine test is marketing more than science. It’s a cool number to see and it’s an advertising point for bike manufacturers to boast, but it’s almost meaningless in real world situations. I see the Tour aero number the same way I see a bike weight. It’s cool to see a low number, but put a rider on the bike and that number is meaningless.
Now I’m not saying aero isn’t real or important. Far from it. But testing a bike without a rider is akin to testing an aero helmet by itself on a stand. It might show huge differences but with a rider on the bike it’s going to change drastically. There are so many other factors like helmets, riders, riding position, water bottles, handlebar shape and width, stack height, rider kit, socks, shoes, wheels that to me, the bike only test is nothing more than a cool number to look at. That and the fact that the Tour test protocol isn’t standardized very well makes comparisons kind of useless.
No, you can’t negate it….you can perhaps minimize the differences, but you can’t negate it. Important distinction.
Considering not every rider will be built like the test dummy nor be able to hold the same test position as someone decides to test with, I feel like it’s just a variable that will create even more discrepancy. They do at least use legs which interact with the bike, and we all have legs that interact more or less the same with the bike too. I do think Tour testing gets way more weight put on than it’s worth though, but sometimes it can be useful, or if nothing else interesting
i meant minimize / negate a part of it
I just wish they were a bit more clear on their testing procedure. I can’t find how they weight their yaw angles and each bike has different bar widths, tyres and wheels. You could make the top 30 bikes move around quite a bit just by altering those. For example, the Orbea Orca aero tests at a slow 212 watts, but it has slow wheels, tyres and a massive 42 cm non-integrated handlebar. Put its aero bottle on (takes it down to 209 watts), modern one piece narrow cockpit, Dt Swiss di cut 62 mm with gp5000 tyres and it could well be in the 206 or below range. Because they don’t test with a fully dummy, the front wheel and handlebar disproportionately have more effect. Although it is still a heavy bike.
AFAIK they don’t publish their angles. Also do you really think bar width tested without a rider would alter testing much? Think about if you have a skinny aero bar that’s 36cm wide vs even 44cm, because it’s so skinny top to bottom you’re really not adding a lot of frontal area that hits the wind. Sure the shifters are further out but they are the same size. If we were comparing a 36cm vs 44cm round bar, I’d agree and if you test the 36 vs 44 with a rider ON, and you’re gonna see some changes for sure.
I think between modern aero or semi aero bikes you’ll notice more of a difference in comfort and handling and stuff but they’re all fairly close for most people. I do think if you’re coming from a bike from 10 years ago then yes you’ll def feel a difference. My Madone is just objectively fast, even going out for an endurance ride it just always feels like it wants to go another gear harder and if the road points down just a little it’s a rocket
My first ride on my new Aero road bike and modern wheel/tires. I am fairly impressed.
Road condition - worn/bumpy
Wind conditions - 12mph NNE @ 6pm fading to 5mph N @ 7pm
Course direction - south counter clockwise to starting point
Riders - (3) riders in pulling/breakaway formation with (1) rider along for the ride.
Perceived pulls/front effort - 35-40% of ride
I wish we could have caught that fast tailwind ride home 
I will say, I feel very slippery on this bike - the bike simply fits me very well. I spent a lot of time finding a good geometry/fit for me.
I definitely do. With no human/mannequin body, the front of the bikes makes up most of the A and cd. Even different brands of tyres will alter the result Look at how fast the systemsix is as it uses a 64 mm rim and a weird old Vittoria tyre in 23 mm, if you plonk a Shimano wheel on with a 25 mm tyre it will likely be slower. Also SL7 vs SL8 difference is a lot to do with the new handlebar. When they tested the r5, it got 6 watts faster with a zipp wheel.
Regarding the bar, I’m on about comparing a 2 piece 42 cm bar (as on the Orbea) vs the one piece narrow Specialized bar. Put that on the Orbea it will perform better. If Tour results impact sales, I am really surprised at companies stocking the bike with poor aero parts.
I think the tires impact it more due to how they change the airflow interaction with the wheel especially at any kind of yaw outside of 0, but who knows. I don’t think Tour really impacts sales too much, they are probably not even known by most cyclists who just walk into a store and buy whatever frame or color looks nice. People like us are a small niche of the buyers IMO
