There is also a middle ground, doing only Z2 will loose you fitness at higher intensities and means you have to start building from a lower point. I would do the Z2 rides and once a week a VO2 max session. This gives you the benefits of Z2 training and contains the damage at the higher intensities…
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The Coggan table has a “note” at the bottom.
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I dont think ISM is advocating just riding at below LT1. He does prescribe intervals. There is a video somewhere with Pog describing a typical week which includes threshold work from memory.
With the table if you dont take into account fatigue etc, it would have you riding at zone 4/5 permanently. Of course it has the note to take into account how much work you are doing.
Edit: heres the video Tadej Pogačar - Climbing Drills with the 2x Tour de France champion - YouTube
Some strange definitions of zones, maybe ISM’s zones with Z2 going up to 90% and “sweet spot” over threshold. Strange, but it comes out of Pogs mouth…
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They do mention in the comments that the zones chart in that video is off. I would probably refer to the article that ISM wrote for TrainingPeaks for his zones, they dont have % of FTP there but its probably more accurate that what is shown here.
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Yeah common sense says the zones listed are wrong. Pog dies say 15’ @ 105% sweet spot is hard so assume that his intervals are actually 105% FTP rather than sweet spot.
Strange video! (Probably why i remember it!)
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That’s probably because Pogačar is a genetic freak and has an incredibly high lactate threshold (incidentally SwiftKey autocorrect his name to include that diacritic mark😲)
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Have been doing a structured polarized approach now for just over a month. Pretty sure that I am getting much stronger on longer rides. Doing 3 to 3.5hr rides now every weekend and HR is getting lower at the same intensity.
Doing 10hr per week over 5 days and my legs feel like the are recovering from a workout all the time, but still fresh enough for the next one.
I do plan to go for an all out 1 hour ride outside again soon, so I can see what the progress has been.
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while you can get fitter in 5 weeks, no doubt, i believe the structural changes which you would attribute the Z2 training, takes many months to develop. there’s likely a short list of reasons why your polarized plan is working for you in a few weeks.
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Yep. Most likely just rest.
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Part of the current progress is volume. I have been consistently doing 7hr per week, ramping up to 10hr currently, for the last 3.5 months.
I started that period semi-detrained with FTP of about 240W, currently at 265W. Now it starts to become interesting, because around this FTP is where I have stalled in the past from doing consistent workouts 7-8 hr per week.
I also haven’t really tested current FTP of 265W. At most I have done longer intervals at 235W, otherwise the intervals are far above or below.
Some others may have already covered this. However, I watched a recent YouTube video where Dr. Attia was explaining “Zone 2” training as he and ISM advocate. He explicitly states during the video that, from a cycling zones perspective, he pegs the metabolic “Zone 2” training he and ISM are advocating as “low zone 3” from a cycling zone equivalent.
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Patience is a virtue. I’ve been consistently doing 7+ hours/week for a full 2 years now, starting Fall of 2020.
A quick review for context to what I’m going to say… I did threshold oriented training over 2 years self-trained ('16-'17) and 2 years TR ('18-'19). Coming into 2020 I had 4 years of slamming intensity in a late fifties working family man body. After peaking in 2017 with an FTP of 275-280 sustainable for 50-70 minutes, I decided to try the “accomplish more inside in less time” message that TR was putting out and bought a Kickr. Reducing time on TR down to 5-6 hours/week did nothing but drop FTP to peaks of 250W for 30-45 minutes sustained. Pre-AT of course. Sad panda. Age decline or my physiology and inappropriate (for me) program design? I didn’t know.
Back to 2020 and embracing endurance plus ‘stuff’ (FasCat 18 weeks SS base). After an initial late Spring bump to 260-265W sustainable for 45-55 minutes, It literally took about a year of doing 4-6 hours/week of endurance riding to really move the needle. But then the magic started. My RHR dropped from 70-72bpm down to 64-66bpm, and now another year later it has dropped to 58-60bpm.
In retrospect, I didn’t realize my body wasn’t absorbing the work in '18-'19. It was like my flight or fight nervous system had been locked into fight. My HRV has increased to normal levels for my age, from 10-20 back up to 25-35.
Two years later in late 2022, my ftp is back up around the 2017 levels of 270-280 (40-50 minutes sustainable). With a proper foundation I’m starting to work on extending time at threshold. And the floor moved up from 150W (late 2020) to 200W (late 2022) for endurance rides. And power under 5 minutes has increased. And despite turning freaking sixty this year, I’m quickly closing the gap with the 2017 version of myself.
Patience is a virtue, as they say. Classic training with a lot of endurance is about playing the long game. For some that means thinking in terms of years, not months.
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For more context I live in flatland and about 60-90 minutes bike ride from the base of the Sierra Nevada mountains in one direction, and a 60-90 minute car ride to the Coastal mountains in the other direction.
Out my door it is hard to NOT be pedaling all the time, for example:
“coasting” is usually 2-5% of ride and its not coasting its sitting at a traffic light as I leave or enter town.
So the idea that 60 minutes inside is like 90 minutes outside is not true where I live. And I can ride outside the entire year.
FWIW last week I listened to Tim Cusick on the Empirical Cycling podcast. So much of what he said resonated with my own experiences. In the context of this thread, he made a point about his view that neuromuscular work - cadence work - is important. And thats why inside I turn off Erg and use Sim mode with free RGT when forced to train inside. Yes Erg is a tool, yes you can change cadence, yes some TR workouts include cadence suggestions. However Erg encourages mono cadence, which I found detrimental to my training. Another relevant point made - use power to inform feeling, train by feeling and power - and IMHO Sim mode with free RGT (or Zwift or whatever) encourages you to better calibrate feeling and support training by feeling.
You take those two points above (and one or two more), doing 2 hours outside with 3% stopped at a traffic light is more productive training FOR ME than 2 hours Erg inside.
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(Emphasis mine).
Can you expand more on how mono cadence is detrimental to your training?
I’m currently doing longer sessions, in erg mode, at a consistent cadence. It works well in training because I don’t have a good sense of “feel” yet for different power levels. But since I’m focused on marathon mountain bike racing, mono cadence will not be part of my racing!
I’m trying to figure out the balance of successfully training endurance, while managing some variety in cadence…
Thanks!
Because I feel stronger and more capable when training all the cadence? Sorry I can’t be more specific than that. Works for me. N=1 and all that. And I’ll claim Tim Cusick is an experienced coach of many athletes at different levels. Like I said he made statements on a recent Empirical Cycling podcast that resonated with my experiences. FWIW.
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also
in my experience the best way to develop feel for power is to actually ride outside using a real-time power chart like on Garmin devices. Or inside in sim mode with a physics engine like Zwift or RGT or … Again that worked for me, and now I can ride long distances in a pretty narrow power range with just few glances at my bike computer and most of the time looking at the road ahead.
Developing that mind/body connection required making and learning from mistakes, I needed to feel what it was like to ride say at 190-210W, then respond to traffic or wind or a hill, and learn to feel what briefly riding at 230-260 felt like, and pay attention to not only that but what it felt like returning to 190-210 endurance pace. You simply don’t have much opportunity to do that in Erg, versus riding around in sim mode as if you were outside. FWIW.
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Since I started doing more Z2 polarized training, I have been riding a lot outside. I live literally in the flatlands, actually the below sea level lands, and I can ride for hours on the flat in Z2 outside. This also meant getting out of ERG mode for structured training. I liked it so much that I also started putting my inside bike on free ride mode for inside workouts. It also keeps you busy trying to hold a fixed power while accelerating, dealing with hills and wind.
Just for cadence drills, ERG mode is very nice. I tried once outside doing intervals of 60 rpm @ 250 W, but that doesn’t work without hills or wind.
I also use ERG mode inside if it is a very easy and long workout. Then I just want to focus on a podcast or watch some YouTube.
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Absolutely, training on terrain or in sim mode is more engaging than Erg. Engages both mind/body.
Low cadence drills I do completely aerobic - upper z2 and lower z3 - which for me is about 200-230W, and if possible into the wind. If no wind I’ll sit up and create more drag. Not a problem even with a tailwind doing something like 22-24mph / 35-39kph:
obviously with a tailwind like that, its easier to do low-cadence fully aerobic work into the wind. One reason for my forum name 
The other place I’m forced to do low cadence is up long climbs in the mountains. Anyone can do low cadence on a climb. Across a range of zones if its not too steep.
I’m of the opinion its better to always be in the flow state or in “the zone” and working on the mind/body connection. No surprise, I’m going to say “make inside like outside” and “sim for the win!” and “train in the flow be present and focused on the task at hand.” Focusing on YouTube or a podcast is a wasted opportunity. YMMV and all that.
Yea, my program gives me low cadence at 92%-102% of FTP, so you know that means going at 102%. 
I have a 50x11, which gives about the same as your 46x10, at 260W I can’t use any tailwind or slight descent as cadence goes right to 70 and above.
In principle I also like being in the moment and stuff, but this was the time when it was raining outside, loaded up the workout on my Garmin and then found out it was a 3.5 hr workout Z1/Z2. Never spent that long inside so just turned on ERG and fired up YouTube.
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And of course these advantages can also be disadvantages depending of the goal of a specific session.