Why are some outdoor workouts different than their indoor counterpart?

[cnigro]

So this is a question I’ve been sitting on for awhile, and could not find an answer on the forums. Today I am scheduled to do Taylor -2, and wanted to take this one outside. Because I have more time on my hands lately, I wanted to add in some additional volume, so I decided to do Taylor instead. However, when you schedule Taylor as an outdoor workout, instead of 3x20 min 30/30’s @120% it subs in 2 sets of 5x4 minute Vo2 max efforts. Meanwhile Taylor -2 swaps over fairly seamless from indoor to outdoor.

Of course this led me to do some further digging, and found a somewhat suitable replacement by doing Gendarme 1.5 times, (2x20 30/30’s at 120%) which swaps over the same indoor vs. outdoor.

I’ve also noticed this with some longer efforts too, as wright peak (3x30 sweet spot), becomes Sylvania (3x20 with a 30 second sprint at the start) when converted to outside, and wright peak +2 (4x30 SS) becomes Marcus Baker (6x18 SS).

Just curious what the rationale is for the differences between indoor and outdoor workouts, especially when there

[Mathieu_Bigras]

I noticed this to… Very curious .

[Bryce]

@cnigro

Just curious what the rationale is for the differences between indoor and outdoor workouts, especially when there

Each outdoor workout needs to be manually created based on the existing indoor workout in order to have an exact one-to-one outdoor replacement version. Our Support Team has gone through and made these one-to-one replacements for every workout that is part of a TrainerRoad training plan, and we have a list we are working through of the workouts that remain.

Those workouts that do not have a one-to-one designation have a one-to-many outdoor equivalent. This means that one outdoor workout pairs to many indoor workouts that focus on a similar energy system. While this is not an optimal solution, it does allow us more flexibility while we complete the remaining one=to-one outdoor workout equivalents.

Let me know if you have any more questions

[cnigro]

Thanks for the response!

[dcrainmaker]

Semi-related question, though, I figured there was no point in spinning up a new thread.

I did ‘Denali -1’ today setup as an Outside Workout synced to my Garmin. The instructions on TR for doing outside workouts implied that the initial 6-minute warm-up piece was to be used as the ‘get to a safe place’ type warm-up, which wouldn’t advance until lap was pressed. Logical.

However, when I synced it to the Edge 830, the workout structure in that when previewed indicated it was time-based and would auto-advance after that first 6-minute warm-up (versus lap button based).

Was I misunderstanding what the Edge 830 was trying to say? Or was this workout tagged wrong? I ended up not wanting to risk it, and simply edited that step on the Edge itself to be lap-button based so I’d have time to get where I was going.

Thanks!

[ibaldwin]

Washington turns into Ankerdine. So a 4x7 min suprathreshold to a 3x12 minute under/over.

I get what Bryce is saying though. Washington is so straight forward that I could just go outside and do that workout without sending it to the Garmin, but I’d love to see it closer to 1/1.

I’m posting this because I’m going to be using more outdoor workouts and would love to see these all get lined up, and I think more TR users should be doing outdoor workouts.

[ibaldwin]

After taking a break from some structure, it’s time to get back on it with a build phase. One of the things I like about the indoor counterparts is the quick visual reference we get with the big blue blocks, a quick way to see what kind of workout we’ll be doing that day, or later in the week. I wonder how many others would find having the same visual cue for outdoor workouts laid out in the workout description and calendar. Since I’ve pushed all my training outdoors now, it’s just the work out name, then I have to look at the description to see what I’ll actually be doing. Not a huge deal but a small thing that could make planning out a week a little easier.

@Bryce, thanks for your time here as always.

[Bryce]

Hey there!

We actually have an existing feature request on this topic over in this thread:

Visualization left in description for outdoor workouts (preview graph)

Hi, I’m sorry if this has been discussed before, I did a search but couldn’t find anything on the subject. I’ve planned all of my workouts outside using plan builder, and I quite miss the little icons that depict the workout profile in the calendar. I loved those when I was doing all my training indoors. I can understand it’s not preferred to have the outside workouts look the same as the inside ones, but maybe they could have a different color or some other variation like that Clicking the …

I’ve personally brought this up to the team, and while it’s certainly a good idea, it is not scheduled for development at the moment due to other major projects in the pipeline. As projects are completed and resources free up, we will have more flexibility to work on smaller projects like these

[ibaldwin]

Thanks for the response, look forward to all new projects big and small.

[llmonty]

Instead of starting a new thread - thought I would make a feature request here.

Doing more outdoor workout equivalents during the week and finding many of the Pettit/Baxter style workouts are much longer outdoors than in. I understand why (sort of, though i have routes that have little stopping/coasting), it is frustrating to search for workouts on the website using duration only to see the outdoor version is 30-45 minutes longer. Trying to fit an available time window.

Possible feature request – narrow workouts by outdoor/time? @IvyAudrain

[mwglow15]

I realize that this post is 5 months old but I saw it didn’t have a response so I thought I’d chime in.

Usually when they build the workouts they won’t make the actual timed interval be the kind that only advances with the lap press. Per your example, they will have a 6 minute interval that will end after the time runs out and then immediately follow it with a 0sec interval that will only end when the lap button is pressed. So if you are 10 min away from the hill that you want to do intervals on then you will end up with a 6 min interval (the pre programmed one) and then a 4 min interval (that ends with the lap press).

Hopefully that makes sense. Also, this could not be the case with the workout that you mentioned and they just made a mistake it creating it. If that’s the case I’ve usually sent a support ticket and they’ve been super quick with getting it fixed.

[mcneese.chad]

@llmonty

Possible feature request – narrow workouts by outdoor/time? @Bryce

• Bryce no longer works at TR.
• @IvyAudrain is the new TR community rep here, and who you should tag in future mentions.

[IvyAudrain]

Thanks for the nudge, we do have a Feature Request to make an ‘Outdoor Workouts’ library that should help you when selecting a workout that fits your timeframe, but we’re working on some higher-priority fixes and long-awaited features before this gets on the roadmap.

That being said, since you have routes available to you without a lot of coasting/stopping and you feel as though outside workouts are too long, you should feel free in exercising some autonomy in choosing workouts that have intervals that fit your timeframe and goals, and cutting out extra time beyond the intervals.

[zbeckman]

Just wanted to add my 2cents here. I’m really struggling to use TrainerRoad because I only bike outdoors. One of the things I miss – and that TrainingPeaks gives me – is the ride profile (the graph). TrainingPeaks lets me basically build a plan that is either in/outdoor. TrainerRoad seems to force me into an “outdoor mode” that is significantly reduced in functionality and value… which means, I’m still struggling and thinking of going back to TrainingPeaks. I love the simplicity and ease of use with TrainerRoad, but you’ve got to treat outdoor riders as 1st class citizens too… if you want to keep us.

[zbeckman]

+1 one on this.

[IvyAudrain]

@zbeckman

One of the things I miss – and that TrainingPeaks gives me – is the ride profile (the graph)

Hey! I want to pass along this feedback to the appropriate teams, can you expand upon what metric exactly you’re looking for in a ‘ride profile’? Is this referring to Outside Workout profiles vs indoor, or the TrainingPeaks Power Profile graph? Are you just referring to how Outside Workouts appear on your head unit?

Feel free to be as specific as you can, I want to make sure we’re getting the full scope of what our athletes are looking for before submitting feedback. Thanks!

[zbeckman]

Well… all of the above, I suppose, but… perhaps in order of precedence:

1. How they APPEAR on my head unit. TP gives me a visual power / workout graph and a description in all presentations (planning, iPhone app, and head unit). This is great when quickly reviewing and planing. I love the little graphs so I can quickly see what a workout is all about (it’s basically the graph thumbnail + TSS, and I know what I’m planning). Bottom line the indoor profiles appear much more complete than outdoor profiles.
2. More of the analytics – but not too much. Honestly TP is way too complicated, and I don’t need that. But I have noticed that I get just a bit more information (often pushed through Strava, where I consume it). In vague order of desirability, the things I use are probably –
   a. Fitness ramp graphs/data. Fatigue/Fitness/Form, and the last 7 day averages over time. Handy to see a quick snapshot of how I’m doing.
   b. Power Zones and Peak Power showing up in Strava. I’ve just started with TR, and I’m not sure if the same depth of data is showing up. My first rides have been short and simple – so, still learning here.

That’s probably about it!

[IvyAudrain]

Thanks for expanding upon that! I definitely hear you on the over-complication of analytics and how that can be tricky, it’s tough for us to navigate, too! We definitely do what we can to find the right balance of features that check the box of helping cyclists get faster, while avoiding overly complicated tools, but this is super constructive feedback that will help us find a better middle-ground. Thank you so much!

[bbarrera]

To illustrate here are two workouts on TP web calendar:

and on mobile:

Inside or outside it doesn’t matter - you can always see a picture of the workout on your TP calendar (and even on TR calendar if you sync from TP-to-TR).

[IvyAudrain]

Thank you! These visuals help a lot with that feedback, passing along to the team!