Train Now and outdoor rides off recommendations

Hi

I’m not actually using Train Now (yet) because I’m happy with my plan. However, I found that Train Now will recommend me very low progression endurance workouts (2.x endurance vs 4.5 threshold for example). This is probably because I do most of my endurance rides outdoors and about half of them on a gravel bike without power meter.

My basic endurance definitely is not that bad – the biggest problem is that I get bored if I do those easy steady rides on the trainer. When I have to do them indoors because of the weather, I usually turn them into an “outdoor” ride done in the orange game environment.

Just wanted to share the observation :wink:

Keep up the good work!

Even if outdoor workouts would be taken into account and you’d have powermeter, TrainNow would not go higher than 6.8 progression level for endurance rides (Ochoco) – this is highest PL for max session time you can choose (150min).

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You’ve observed correctly. Under the hood, TrainNow references your Adaptive Training Progression Levels when it picks workouts, and as of now these are not influenced by unstructured outside rides. So in essence, you’re better at Endurance than TrainNow currently has the capability to observe. However, improving this is a point of major ongoing development for Adaptive Training.

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There’s an idea. Next time I want to replace my Sunday sweet spot workout with a steady endurance ride, I’ll load Ochoco to the head unit and do it as a structured ride on the road bike with PM outdoors. This should “fix” the progression level for suggested endurance rides (not that there really is a problem to fix).

This will become really interesting when I finally get into AT because I find my Wednesday endurance workouts a notch too easy (sustained power build / climbing road race mid volume).

I’m afraid not, this is what Sean was saying – outside workouts are not taken into account currently but this feature development is in progress.

Until then, you can set your own starting point (let’s say 6.8 with Ochoco) and then weekly add similar PL increases as your plan prescribes. It is usually 0.5-1 points per week (even 2 in TBHV1: 3.1 → 5.2). Or you can set your own ramp rate if you know you can recover from it. Be conservative side initially, you might finish this single workout but it can affect next workouts. Once AT starts taking outdoor rides into account, it hopefully considers work already done and you’ll have proper PL level for endurance.

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I think (really not sure if this works) you don’t actually have to do Ochoco - you can just associated your outdoor ride with it afterwards. Of course, this might confuse the AT engine a lot, especially if your ride was actually very different from Ochoco. However it would tell AT you did a hard endurance ride.

(I haven’t tested this - I just think it might work)

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I often just check the target power before riding, the do the ride “unstructured” and associate afterwards (if there was no automatic association). These rides don’t seem to be taken into account for the Train Now progression.

Hmm, Sean wrote, “unstructured outside rides.” I thought structured TR outdoor workouts would count? Wasn’t that also in the podcast?

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They do. I’ve been doing this for two weeks now. Works great.

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This is NOT true and currently doesn’t work. (They are working on it though.) I had to do this yesterday because I couldn’t get the workout I wanted to load on the Garmin.

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Also, some workouts may miss an outside progession level and thus won’t make a change to the same.