The weird thing is the model might move up back/forth as you go through it. So it could be a bit jarring for athletes. We’d probably do some type of smoothing on it so it didn’t drive you crazy.
I think it would, as some people will respond to things differently or have some phase really click.
That’s another reason I’d like to see a line graph behind as you’ll be able to see when those jumps may have occurred (and maybe a hover over that point will indicate a particular week of training, or session)?
I also think, like fitness and TSS, it would take some education on the Pod and on the page itself for people to not chase the number right now but focus on the end number and how to make it happen.
This is already I think going to be a point of education/a challenge for you with AI-FTP as I watch people talking of detecting it with such high frequency and potentially missing the forest (plan progression) for the trees (more Power!!)
I want to archive all activities, full data. You need all the tools VI, EF, Aerobic Decoupling, etc. All of that is table stakes and you don’t have it, so one reason I dropped my subscription. But we are getting into the weeds.
As an outside cyclist this is what I care about:
Maybe start by giving me one outside workout a week, to help me take the number 1 spot on the leaderboard.
Everything else in this thread is making my head spin, and I’m a data nerd.
Absolutely love that mock-up and it would definitely be a great way to motivate people and promote compliance. Some of the possibilities you’ve shared in this thread are truly exciting to me!
What do you do though when someone has 100% compliance, maybe even exceeds the goals, and gets to the end, takes an FTP test and gets a 285…and then goes everywhere telling people about it?
Yeah, it’s a range always. But…as we get closer to it, it’s going to give the same response as our AI FTP Detection (same ML model). And that seems to nail it so far based on initial feedback.
It’s kind of like your retirement planning. The farther we look the harder it is to nail. But…as you exceed the goals it will also auto-adjust. Basically, the prediction will be updated regularly based on what you do. So the closer you get, the more accurate we’ll get.
Just thinking out loud: would implementing outdoors workout / rides integration into AT help with this?
I bet a lot of people would still be thrilled to see Progression Levels and FTP progressions from outside rides, possibly enough to convince them to keep the subscription?
Yes, that’s what were working on and that’s what we want to launch.
Complete Activity Tracking, which for me includes the following on top of cycling
- Runs
- Walks
- Strength
- Other
I’m not looking for plans for the above, just to be able to schedule a session and / or have TR process a FIT file for the above so they show up in my calendar, and ultimately get factored in by AT.
The ability to track metrics (and get them from other services) on a daily basis. E.g.,
- Weight, and the different sub-parts. E.g., BMI, lean, etc.
- Resting HR
- HRV
- Sleep, and the different sub-parts. E.g., light, deep, REM, etc.
- Daily mood score
Add the concept of goals, that aren’t events. For example, I have the following weekly process goals that I track:
- Successfully execute all cycling workouts
- Complete at least 3 core / pilate / yoga sessions
- Foam roll lower body at least 3 times
- Complete 2 strength workouts
Better analytics. Or in the short term, a direct link from TR → Intervals.icu, so Intervals.icu can pull everything from TR.
And the concept of equipment, so I can track specific workouts to specific bikes (e.g., trainer, road, gravel) to run analytics on.
I would happily drop TP completely in favour of TR if the following items were in place:
Need to have
Logging of other endurance and strength workouts (running, cross country skiing, hiking), including time, distanse, TSS or TSS estimates.
Logging of other relevant metrics, especially weight (sync with Whitings), sleep, resting heart rate, etc.
Logging of other relevant events, namely sickness, travel, work or other things that may impact training.
Dashboard/report builder including ffiltering possibilities.
Nice to have
Equipment overview.
Alerts suggesting that I may benefit from change of training /more, less, different).
Career results from competitions/events.
This feature sounds amazing - please get on and implement 
The gaps alluded to above around TP must be relevant to a large number of TR users - there must be a lot of TR users who are also paying for TP or otherwise are interested in forward looking TSS and so forth. If you’re looking to capture more value within TR, why not implement that functionality?
I have way too many platforms for cycling. At the moment I have a Garmin account (only used for syncing), a Strava Premium account, a TR account, an Intervals account (while free, theres a time cost in using lots of platforms), paid Veloviewer, and Zwift.
I use Intervals for forward planning, and I like that my TR calendar syncs into it, but I’d prefer to have one location… since it is the same data! I set my plan in TR then go over to Intervals to look at the fitness chart, weekly load planning (sorry to say their graphing options for weekly load etc are better), zone mix, and a bunch of custom charts I use. I like to look at decoupling and power/hr as well.
I do the same. Like you I just prefer intervals.icu view of the data.
Random thought, if you incorporate outdoor progressions into AT, does that have any effect on the existing AT implementation? Seems like it could result in AT trying to prescribe faster PL ramp rates which could be an issue.
To hopefully be a bit clearer: the current ramp rates and progressions AT prescribes must have an expectation for a certain amout of outside work “baked in”, since you’ve developed it by looking at what TR users actually execute within TR. Most TR users do some outside work and while AT can’t see that, it does have a knock on effect on TR users’ performance in their TR workouts. So if you allow AT to suddenly see all that outside work, it could have a big effect on how AT makes recommendations.
Sorry if this has been said but, If it’s to drive yearly subscriptions up, nailing the swim and run areas would probably close the monthly / annual gap.
If it included a peak maintenance schedule for those who hit up mutiple events over the warmer months in the respective countries it would be great, i’d be very interested in seeing that.
Yes to decoupling.
I know you voted against more HR integration long time but here is my specific wish list for HR which gives most bang for bug as training metric:
1
Most valuable is intervals.icu cumulative time above HR graph. Super helpful if you train VO2max truly by HR as proxy for VO2max state.
Site note:
I requested that chart here in this forum (Thoughts on intervals.icu data breakdown - #120 by Rizzi) and it was live one week later as seen here with screenshot (Thoughts on intervals.icu data breakdown - #130 by davidtinker)! How cool is that!
2
Power vs HR by season like:
3
Besides that I look at estimated load by HR vs TSS but that depends on dialed in HR zones and would probably be not for the masses.
For me I subscribe to TP purely as it makes it very easy for me to;
- Track ramp rate - I know that I need to stay in the 3-5 zone for things not to hurt after a couple of weeks
- TSB - Equally if I’m feeling crap it’s because I’ve drifted over -25ish on form. And TP tracks everything I do exercise-wise (dog walking, hiking, running, etc) so it all counts (which is handy)
- Centralised calendar - I look in my TP calendar and I can see my weight (Withings), my sleep, RHR and HRV (Oura), my workouts, etc, etc. It all just integrates easily
Probably just minor tweaks but having that key info quickly accessible with the API’s they have is really handy.
I’m assuming that consideration of such a plan might mean that AT with outside workouts on Wahoo might be working soon. Is this a safe assumption @Nate_Pearson ?
VI, Heartrate decoupling, ramp rate over specific time periods, average Numbers over a custom time period (i.e. average weekly training hours over the last 365d or average weekly running hours last X weeks), Fatigue and Form, Running and swimming import.
If TR supports that, I could cancel my annual TP subscription.
Customizability.
A really nice feature is that you can customize your start/career page. That would help keep track of goals athletes may have. E. g. if my goal is to lose weight and increase my W/kg, it’d be nice if I could add a graph of those metrics. Here are a few metrics I think athletes should be able to add:
- Weight
- Body fat %age
- FTP
- Specific FTP (W/kg)
- Resting heart rate
- Hours of sleep
- TSS per week
- x-minute power PR for the season
- 2 or 3 actions per week (think Atomic Habits) where I can add things like: catch more than 8 hours of sleep for 3 nights and do strength training twice.
I’d offer to smooth these metrics, i. e. you give rolling averages. This is particularly helpful with weight where you have lots of fluctuations, but you want to recognize a trend. Further, I’d also suggest that you add the possibility of goals (e. g. a weight goal) and easy arrows to indicate trends (is my weight trending up, down or stays the same?). For many of these metrics, you’d need Health integration so that TR just updates my weight automatically from whatever my Withings scale uploaded to the cloud.
Apart from that, race and ride analytics, including HR analytics. The latter is not only useful when only some of your bikes have a power meter, but you could also use that for running and swimming if you wanted to.
Out of curiosity, what — if anything — would you find enticing?
I just added analytics, because I know that this is what a lot of people would want.
I’m in the exact same boat as you are: 2 kids, demanding job, want to stay married, etc. During the summer I usually get to ride with my mates twice a month. Not sure how the little one changes this. Recently, I have been doing one endurance ride on the weekend with our oldest in tow. This way, my wife has a bit of downtime (as much downtime as you can have with a baby), I get some training in and my daughter and I can spend some quality time.
Yup, I think this is the best combo — and the only realistic option for me. Before we had kids I’d sometimes meet up with riding mates at 5 am or so and go for a 2-hour ride. But that’d take a much bigger chunk of time, so that’s a big no-no. Plus, since I live in the city, it’d take me 15–20 minutes one way to get out of heavily trafficked areas. Indoor training is just that much more time efficient.
that actually sounds like something that would suit people i know. i don’t know what it is, but indoor cycling just doesn’t appeal to them one bit
When workout levels V2 comes out we’ll be able to detect failures on outside workouts on Wahoo. Right now we assume they pass but you can mark them differently.