The Official - Things need to change thread

This thread went the wrong direction so let’s move the conversation here.

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Let’s do it

Imgur

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When you have a law on the books which pertains to protecting exclusively one particular race from the actions of a different race…you know you have a very long-standing problem which is deeper than any modern form of ‘political correctness’.

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People need to understand some simple things in life:

Discrimination is a real thing in the United States.
Just because you have never been discriminated against doesnt mean it has not happen to others.
You might be a minority (i am Hispanic), that doesn’t mean you are being automatically discriminated against.

people need to learn to walk on other people shoes.

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I’m white, I’m male, I eat a LOT of meat and don’t apologise for it, and Black Lives Matter.

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discrimination and racism appears to be human nature, and transcends the United States?

Plucking two countries at random from across the Pacific:

Indeed. I’m white Europe, but from an ethnic group (Portuguese) that can be viewed as either white or more “ethnic” so I kind of see both the white male privilege but I’m also heard my share of cheap ethnic slurs since the popular thing in my hometown (despite being majority Portuguese while growing up) was to poke fun at Portuguese immigrants. So while my experience pales in comparison to what a lot of people go through, I hope I have more empathy for those who are constantly discriminated against merely for the way they look. We could all use a lot of perspective on stuff

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With respect, this is “whataboutery”. Right now, the conversation both here, and in the public domain, is about racism in America.

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If things are to change, it needs to be put in the context of human nature.

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Better go deeper into history than a brief Wiki swipe.

For example, Koreans are infamously known for disliking EVERYONE. The reason? The country, since day one, has been under invasion and/or occupation by non-Korean peoples. It’s still not a united country! Many of these other countries, whose societies are thousands of years old, see their form of discrimination stem from centuries of literal invasion and occupation by outside forces.

America does not share a similar history, neither in length nor experience. Its racism stems from, and continues, because of something completely different.

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I live in Amsterdam… arguably one of the most progressive and liberal places on the face of the planet. And yet we have our fair share systematic discrimination and institutional racism.
That’s why 5000 people demonstrated here yesterday… yes largely in solidarity with the movement in the US, but also because racism exists everywhere… and things need to change everywhere.

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I want to live in a flat in De Dageraad.

Yes - to be clear, my argument was not that the discussion should not spread, or that other countries should not examine their own racial issues - but that we be careful that this examination of other countries does not give us cover to ignore or hide from the issues in our own.

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fair point. this does happen all too often

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@kontrabass Let have a conversation here

Have you ever being discriminated to the point that a cop shot you without warning, when you were minding you own business?

Please tell me how you feel about:
Philando Castile (had permit)
Tamir Rice (kid with a toy gun)

2 deaths that could have been avoided and that police could have act more swiftly about the “bad cops” (i heard the head of the Cleveland union actually calling the Tamir Rice shooting justified)

The inaction from LE agencies with cases similar to this is the reason we got this.
At least this time around the Minneapolis PD acted fast and got rid of the bad cops. I can see a lawsuit coming soon tho (for perceived unjustified termination), but hopefully not.

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ya, I’ve traveled the world and paid attention during history classes. We could spin the globe and travel back in time, the examples are everywhere.

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This is absolutely true.

The issue is we’re being asked to look at the here and the now and do what is right.

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I’m not really sure what your point is. Is it that there have been must more overtly racist / genocidal times (Stalin, Khmer Rouge, US Confederacy to name a few) that this excuses what is happening now? That the US isn’t living up to the preamble to the constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Edit: Corrected my English at the start of the 2nd sentence

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Yes, racism exists everywhere as a societal construct of class and privilege, those of color often being viewed as “backward” or “savage” or “inferior”. This has been perpetuated throughout history without a doubt. Your arguments seem very defeatist though which is disappointing. Just because we have failed egregiously in the past does not mean we should continue to do so.

Also yes, many Asian countries have similar issues and it isn’t ok there either. Their context is significantly different however in that you are dealing with a largely homogenous society that has a historical context of constant threat from the “outside”, further exacerbated by European (and American) imperialism. Similar and definitely important in the proper context, but very different.

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Can you elaborate on this a bit? I’m curious what you mean and how you would shape moving away from human nature as you see it (which I somewhat agree with you on that yes skepticism of the “other” is a basic survivalist instinct for humans but one we should be able to overcome).