# Sweetspot Is Harder Than Vo2 Max? **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [January 10, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583 "2019-01-10T18:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dmartinjr518](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dmartinjr518/32/6812_2.png) [@dmartinjr518](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/dmartinjr518)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/1 "2019-01-10T18:27:20Z")
I’m getting really frustrated. I’m trying to finish SSB2 LV and I don’t seem to be able to handle 10min 8min or even 6min efforts. I’ve failed 4 of the last 5 sweetspot/threshold workouts, but I can finish the +1 versions of 30x30 or 60x60 Vo2 Max workouts consistently. I’m already on the low volume plan, so I’m getting plenty of days off. I sleep very well. I’m staying on top of my nutrition/fueling. My FTP has improved over the base period, but that just means I fail at a higher number each time. lol. Maybe I’m predisposed to doing well at short repeated efforts. Is there some way I can backtrack these SS workouts to a manageable level to help them catch up? The plans call for longer and longer efforts with shorter rests as the weeks progress, but what if the first one isn’t manageable? I just tried Jepson at 97% and turned it down to 95% and still failed on the second interval. Would it be feasible to DIY a sweetspot workout with 3 min intervals totaling the same cumulative amount of SS time, then make a 3.5min interval workout, then a 4min interval workout, and so on? Because bailing on a workout does no good and is somewhat demoralizing, and turning a sweetspot interval down to 80% isn’t going to derive the benefit I’m looking for. ---
**Author:** ![jgthomas59](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jgthomas59/32/28887_2.png) [@jgthomas59](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/jgthomas59)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/2 "2019-01-10T18:40:13Z")
Check out the minus versions of Carson and Garrowby. They have short sweetspot intervals in the few min range. Maybe try the -3 versions of each, then -2, then -1 and see if that helps you work your way up? And read “How bad do you want it.” That helped me get comfortable being uncomfortable. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PusherMan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pusherman/32/4266_2.png) [@PusherMan](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/PusherMan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/3 "2019-01-10T18:44:14Z")
You could certainly use the Custom Build App/Tool to create your own bespoke Sweet Spot workout. It’s simple to use and it might help you break this pattern. Out of interest, are you using a smart trainer and which ring are you in? ---
**Author:** ![tshortt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/tshortt/32/3100_2.png) [@tshortt](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/tshortt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/4 "2019-01-10T19:03:58Z")
@dmartinjr518 When was your last Ramp Test (or assessment)? Part of the reason I ask is that despite the name, the _second_ part of Sweet Spot Base Plan actually has very little Sweet Spot work. Those are threshold workouts. They’re supposed to be hard. I realize we can be splitting hairs when it comes to discussing zones, but I’m just saying the SS workouts in Part 1 are much more toward the 88% FTP end. These are in the mid to upper 90% of FTP and/or longer in duration. ---
**Author:** ![dmartinjr518](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dmartinjr518/32/6812_2.png) [@dmartinjr518](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/dmartinjr518)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/5 "2019-01-10T19:05:38Z")
No smart trainer. No matter the ring, I usually spin at around 90rpm, although I have tried everything from 80 to 105. My breathing never even feels very taxed, but my muscles just can’t keep up the steady power. ---
**Author:** ![dmartinjr518](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dmartinjr518/32/6812_2.png) [@dmartinjr518](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/dmartinjr518)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/6 "2019-01-10T19:08:42Z")
I’ve tested within the last 3 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![timpenylong](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/timpenylong/32/14053_2.png) [@timpenylong](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/timpenylong)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/7 "2019-01-10T19:15:49Z")
Thoughts - were you able to complete Gieger and Eclipse from SSB1LV ? ( if not then think your FTP is maybe too high) - If you did, then did your ramp test at start of SSB2LV increase our FTP ( If yes then your FTP is maybe too high) - Is your turbo power or virtual profile match ? - temperature can make a sizeable difference to turbo if not calibrated ? ---
**Author:** ![mcsenn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@mcsenn](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcsenn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/8 "2019-01-10T19:18:13Z")
I assume that you’re basing your FTP on the Ramp Test? If your VO2Max is a higher percent of your FTP than a normal rider (i.e. you’re relatively good at VO2Max compared to longer efforts), then - I think - the Ramp Test is probably overestimating your FTP. From your description, it sounds like you couldn’t hold your tested FTP for anywhere close to an hour - am I extrapolating correctly? My guess is that for anything less intense than VO2Max intervals, you’ve got to lower your FTP (or just turn down the intensity) significantly. [Edit: by ‘significantly’, I expect like 95% or maybe even 90% - I’d be really surprised if you had to go all the way to 80%] If you don’t want to make such ad hoc adjustments, perhaps doing the 20 minute or 8 minute FTP tests will give you results that are better guides to your sustainable power. ---
**Author:** ![tshortt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/tshortt/32/3100_2.png) [@tshortt](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/tshortt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/9 "2019-01-10T19:21:18Z")
@timpenylong @dmartinjr518 I would add one more to what @timpenylong has outlined: did you properly fuel the workout? Also, you shouldn’t have to turn down _all the way to 80%_ to complete those intervals. I have had to turn threshold workouts down at the most 5% or maybe some back spins. If I need to go any further, then something is up. (FTP to high, didn’t fuel workout, too much cumulative fatigue, tech issues). Also, I use how much I have to turn it down _from one workout to the next_ to judge how much my FTP might be off. I think what @mcsenn is saying is _very valid_ and is what I regularly do. But I would not recommend jumping straight to that conclusion until you rule some other things out. ---
**Author:** ![ErickVH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/erickvh/32/15689_2.png) [@ErickVH](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ErickVH)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/11 "2019-01-10T19:27:40Z")
If you take brief breaks (5-10s) and get back in? If so just take them as needed and plow along. You’ll build the muscular endurance required for the longer intervals as you go along. ---
**Author:** ![Alen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/alen/32/4820_2.png) [@Alen](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Alen)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/12 "2019-01-10T19:32:21Z")
You should be able to do over an hour of sweet spot. Some workouts like Phoenix+1 are just that. The fact that you struggle 6 min is alarming. Even if your FTP is 10% too high, you’re doing threshold instead of SS; you should be able to do 6 min of that. Something makes no sense. Are you using virtual power or a PM? Also which trainer do you have? ---
**Author:** ![dmartinjr518](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dmartinjr518/32/6812_2.png) [@dmartinjr518](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/dmartinjr518)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/13 "2019-01-10T19:37:09Z")
Yeah, there’s no chance I could hold my ramp FTP for an hour. Maybe I need to try a 20min test. Short breaks and backspins do nothing to breathe any life back into my legs once they are cooked. I’m using the one sided Vector 2 pedals and a Kinetic Road Machine fluid trainer. I zero the meters through the PC app before every workout. ---
**Author:** ![Jonnyboy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jonnyboy/32/5802_2.png) [@Jonnyboy](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jonnyboy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/14 "2019-01-10T19:39:38Z")
> [@dmartinjr518](#): > > Yeah, there’s no chance I could hold my ramp FTP for an hour. Maybe I need to try a 20min test. Most people can’t unless they train for it. Think of it as a benchmark to work off rather than your actual ‘hour power’ ---
**Author:** ![Monkeyevil](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/monkeyevil/32/7316_2.png) [@Monkeyevil](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Monkeyevil)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:49am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/15 "2019-01-30T04:49:30Z")
I have the exact same issue in SSB2LV 90+% intervals are painful and demoralizing, like pedaling through peanut butter for 10 minutes. If I’ve had a stressful day it’s hard to get into the mindset to endure the leg pain. VO2 feels awesome, however. Painful, but I don’t have to backspin at all. Sometimes I turn the intensity up. If you figure it out let me know 😂 ---
**Author:** ![abalakov](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/abalakov/32/16499_2.png) [@abalakov](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/abalakov)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/16 "2019-01-31T17:18:22Z")
> I’m trying to finish SSB2 LV and I don’t seem to be able to handle 10min 8min or even 6min efforts. If you are in ERG mode try the bigger chainring and see if it makes a different. > [@Big vs Small Chainring - Same Power (ERG Mode Gearing)](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/big-vs-small-chainring-same-power/6119): > > I recently did the Antelope workout which has 10-min intervals at around 90% FTP. Since I use a smart trainer in ERG mode, I normally do not shift gears and just leave it in my small chainring and a cog that makes the chain straight. Five minutes into the first interval, and holding a cadence of 85-95 (Antelope recommendation), I found myself really struggling. I shifted to the big chainring and one cog easier (one cog easier just to offset the big chainring a bit), and finished the second and … ---
**Author:** ![Montana](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/montana/32/10014_2.png) [@Montana](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/17 "2019-01-31T19:32:28Z")
Maybe your still tired on the Thursday after doing +1 on the Tuesday? Have you watched the podcast about why SS is so hard? Some great info and advice on it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Doughnutman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/captain_doughnutman/32/7694_2.png) [@Captain\_Doughnutman](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Captain_Doughnutman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/18 "2019-01-31T19:40:10Z")
> [@Montana](#): > > Have you watched the podcast about why SS is so hard? It’s not so hard (or harder than VO2) but it sure is so sweaty!!! Wtf?!! 🤨😓😓😓 ---
**Author:** ![tshortt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/tshortt/32/3100_2.png) [@tshortt](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/tshortt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/19 "2019-01-31T19:40:54Z")
Sweatspot ---
**Author:** ![Montana](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/montana/32/10014_2.png) [@Montana](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/20 "2019-01-31T19:47:32Z")
Sorry I don’t get it? Was just trying to help the person asking the question, guess I won’t bother now. ---
**Author:** ![HLaB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hlab/32/60448_2.png) [@HLaB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/HLaB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/sweetspot-is-harder-than-vo2-max/9583/21 "2020-07-19T22:07:28Z")
Some days if my head is not in it, I can find sweetspot intervals a drag and they feel harder than VO2 max intervals where I don’t have time to think. Other days though it feels like I could go on indefinitely in the sweetspot 🤔