I mean the benefit of a hardtail for a lot of people is that it can weigh sub 24 lbs without costing an arm and a leg. It’s good for youth riders, women, and beginner men to have access to lightweight hardtails that allow them to enjoy the sport because they’re not on a 30lb bike that sucks all of the fun out of it but they’re also not dropping $8k+ on a bike.
But I realize that is a dying perspective.
+1. Go to a NICA race and there are plenty of S-Works and high end expensive bikes lining up. But there’s probably even more on hard tails that are just getting into the sport. That lighter and cheaper entry point allows them to be at least competitive (and as you mentioned not suck). This past race our boy lost a sprint for second because the finish straight was chunky and he was bouncing all over but he was at least in the mix.
Along the lines of saving a few bux, I’m looking at the new Canyon Lux World Cup CFR which doesn’t seem to give up much to the Epic 9. Their top US build is $9500 and 21.7 lb (medium). Fox sus and dropper, so no Flight Attendant, but I’d rather not have that added complexity anyway.
If we are talking about kids (or even adults) entering the sport, it’s really not about the bike at that level. There is such a wide range of abilities. The fast kid on a 30 lb HT is going to crush a less skilled/weaker riding on the epic 9 every single time. Can the bike make a difference in finishing position? Of course, but that’s not gonna keep a kid from learning and competing unless they have a crappy mindset. I’d rather a kid learn to “overcome” equipment limitations rather being the racer who is blaming the equipment when they are finishing mid pack due to skills and fitness shortcomings. And I’m not saying high $ bikes aren’t a challenge at the youth level once you get to a certain point, but I don’t see it as a barrier to entry. It would be like an adult showing up to their first cat 3 mtb race on a 30lb hard tail. If they have solid skills and fitness, they will likely ride away from the everyone and win the race. If they suck, it doesn’t matter what is under them until they get base level fitness and skills.
You’re not wrong about fitness and skills being the most important. But I am thinking of the kid I have in class… He is super competitive and in his first season already at a decent level (lowest finish has been 6th in the JV race). He is beating kids on much better bikes and has some awesome handling skills, kid rides stuff on a hard tail that most wouldn’t even think of. In this case he has maxed out his bike.
I work with these kids every day and the price point is definitely a barrier. I guess that’s the reality of it but I would love to see more diversity in the sport. But I have derailed the thread enough.
I nerd out on a lot of my bike stuff, but messing with the electronic stuff is not one of them. I’m very much a set it and forget it..
That being said, I have flight attendant on my Epic 8 and it’s phenomenal. I did the initial set up and have basically left it alone since then. Every ride it always seems like it’s doing what it should. No messing with anything.
I’m sure it could have it’s problems, but just chiming in with first hand experience that I’m not ‘good’ with that kind of stuff, but have found it to be very low maintenance.
I’ve heard this is going away too though, which doesn’t make sense to me personally.
Must’ve missed that. They introduced it alongside the Epic 8 so it’s … 2 yrs old and they kill it already? Bummer. That pink color was really cool
I read it online, so obviously taken with a grain of salt, but I felt the same as you when I saw it originally. It hasn’t been around very long and it’s a solid entry level option when bikes are becoming less and less affordable.
Have you looked into
Outride - Riding for Focus
This might help support getting better bikes than they can afford
+1 on the new canyon. I love that has fox and Shimano. Don’t love the press fit bb but better than headset cable routing…
All my mtbs since 2003 had Fox sus. All bikes (mtb, road gravel) had SRAM drivetrains since 2010. It might be time to check out Shimano again. I figure it probably works OK.
Same experience here, couldn’t be happier
only thing i’d say against flight attendant and electronics in general is that when they fail, it tends to be a complete failure whereas mechanical solutions tend to retain some level of fucntionality.
FA in particular, if one component eg your power meter dies, the whole system stops working. suspension lockouts should be able to carry on working to an extent without power, just based on bump thresholds - its great that it takes into account how you’re pedaling but the loss of that shouldn’t disable the whole system. i’m not even sure what the role of the deraileur is but without it you have no pedalling support.
I haven’t looked into it but have you guys serviced a Flight Attendant fork and shock? I service my sus and don’t know if it adds any complexity to that. In any case, I don’t think it would do anything of consequence for riding. And, I’m a Luddite curmudgeon that doesn’t like electronic shifting either. I have it on a bike and it works great, but too much high tech faff on a human powered machine that shouldn’t require charging and batteries to ride, IMO.
I’ve serviced my fork, but not shock yet.
The main different thing with the fork is that there is the control module sitting on top that replaces a typical lockout knob. It also uses a different damper to interface with that control module, but the rest of the parts on the fork are identical and the electronics module doesn’t come into play in any of the service. I’ve only done the lower service on my fork and swapped the damper when upgrading to FA, but I reviewed the entire service manual and nothing else is different.
I have not messed with the shock at all, but I assume it’s just like the fork with the electronic/battery module basically just replacing the knob for the 3 suspension settings. I’d be surprised if anything internal is different.
I’m with you. I have di2 because it came on the bike but on like my third ride on it, I kicked a rock up into the derailleur and got it lodged in the spokes. Luckily it seems unscathed but I can’t see spending $500 to put a new one on instead of just a good mechanical XT. I have found adjusting it to be more annoying than mechanical and don’t like having to think about charging the batteries.
I’ve had both serviced multiple times without any issues. I’ve done several stage races (BCBR, Cape Epic etc) and the training involved without any issues. If the power meter fails you can still toggle between lockout and open manually (maybe the middle mode?). But I’ve only had that happen… maybe once?
Definitely not trying to sell any one on flight attendant. Just relating that I’ve had a good experience and it was amazing during Cape Epic (as is my Epic 8… so fun to ride)
Yeah. If I were closer to the pointy end of whatever cat I was racing, I’d be more interesting in availing myself of anything that provided even the smallest advantage, like electronic shifting and electronic suspension, additional cost and complexity be damned. The thing is, I’m old and slow and just happy to finish a ride, so there’s no consequential benefits that justify it in my mind. In one sense, I kind of look at it as cheating. There’s batteries, motors, microprocessors, and software actively making riding easier. What’s next, powering the pedaling too?
Does FA require a SRAM/Quarq power meter, or could I use my Favero pedals?
I don’t really want FA or electronic shifting either. I’m not very convinced that it’s faster or better, and just knowing myself if my shifter won’t pair or something 10 minutes before a race is about to start, I’m gonna rage and throw the whole bike in the dumpster. I really don’t want to take that risk for marginal or nonexistent benefits, when I really have no issues at all with mechanical. Seems like it will be inevitable when I get my next race bike though…