Pro/Elite training

He is pretty transparent, you could listen to one of the two off-season resistance training for cyclists and do the program without purchasing it.

Most of the post-base 8-12 hours/week plans look pyramidal to my eyes. There is a Sweet Spot 4 plan that is called polarized and looks polarized. You can find example weeks of his plans on the webpage of each plan. For example here is week2 of climbing intervals on my calendar:

Doesn’t look polarized to me. That comes after 24 or 30 weeks of off-season & base, if you were using his off-the-shelf plans.

Road racing intervals are similar, look pyramidal. For example week 3 is 4-min vo2max (full-gas), 3x10 at FTP, endurance, 3 hour group ride on Sat, and 2.5 hour zone2 on Sunday. Looks pyramidal to me, depending on what you ride on Saturday and your definition of Wednesday’s 30-minutes of FTP intervals.

1 Like

It sounds like Marco P is describing LT1 as 2mmol of lactate or 1 mmol above base line.
This is inline with the many lactate tests have have done on myself and others.
This corresponds to 90% FTP for the majority I’ve seen.
So everything upto sweetspot is included in this description of LIT.

1 Like

Ohhhhhh. This is even more confusing seeing as most people would put tempo and SS into Z2 in a 3 zone model.

Hell, a lot of experts and coaches don’t really elaborate. They often generalize, which I find annoying, because this sport is anything but general. One of my favorite people to listen to with regards to training is Sebastian Weber, that guy is more than willing to get specific.

My experience is that zone 3 (coggan) corresponds to the first rise in lactate above baseline (aerobic threshold it’s often termed), all the way upto 1mm above lactate (normally close to 2mmol). So 75-90% FTP is included in the LIT.
That’s my understanding.

it’s for everyone different. PLS FORGET THIS NONSENSE COGGAN ZONES!!! and pls stop comparing everything where it is at coggan zones. why you all are so fixed to this coggan model? oh because of tpeaks and zwift and so on …

90% of your MLSS (i hope this is what you mean with “FTP”) is still LIT for you? Is there a high lack of pyruvate? how high is your LA concentration when you ride there? what metabolic system you train when you ride 90% of your MLSS? for a very high chance you are pretty glycolytic at this intensity, no LIT at all.

It’s the top of the classification of a 3 zone Sieler model ( 2mmol of lactate).
2 mmol of lactate for me is 90% FTP
So zone 1 in the 3 zone classification is upto 90% using this system.

VLAMAX 0.61

yea and who cares? its about a uniqe metabolism and not about a model which fits some maybe. and vlamax alone says nothing without vo2max and other parameters.

and btw it changes all the time

whats your vo2max?

Who cares?
Err, well you just asked me.

I agree it’s about unique metabolism, which I why I shared mylactate values as % of FTP.

Vo2 66
Vla max 0.61
From inscyd

1 Like

ok cool, nice values.

and inscyd says your fatmax is where?

please tell me also mlss from inscyd & weight

yep, around 1,6 - 1,8 for highly endurance trained athletes i would agree, for high vlamax guys they clear the lactate very good but when 1,6 - 1,8 show up in the blood they are for sure already above fatmax. thats why they train loads of low (as a % of their vo2max) base when they have a high vo2max in season prep for example …

2 Likes

Weight 63kg
Fat max 175w
AT 260w
I’m weak at threshold but I did 288wfor 53 mins
the week after the inscyd test in a zwift race.
So Inscyd values don’t quite add up for me

I’ve always wondered how much TrainingPeaks and even TrainerRoad have influenced training for the most of us.

A lot of coaches, outside the top pro level, learned most of what they know due to their experience or their coaches using both.

Good and bad.

I would also love to see some of these power profiles with cadence. I bet some of the more steady state intervals look different when you factor that in.

2 Likes

I would say a lot… especially with things like Intervals.icu

Below is what my training with a coach has looked like since January 1st. This is riding about 10-15 hours a week polarised. Considering how much my Form is in grey or fresh, I would be worried if I was self coaching, but then putting in all other factors, I am actually riding as hard and much volume as I can without falling apart (ish :wink: )

The red dip into “high risk” is when I went 2 weeks to canary island to ride, and was doing 40 hours over 12 days.

So yeah, all these softwares which only provides hard data on watts and numbers, but totally ignore all other factors, will skew the real numbers, and might possibly get people to either over train, do too much intensity, etc.

99% of what I love having a coach is to have someone monitor my well being, outside of numbers, and adapt the training to that. And its a HUGE factor when it comes to consistency, motivation etc.

And since I have not had a single full on rest week since January, I am off to take a full week of the bike :wink:

1 Like

I’ve definitely focused TOO much on driving up CTL and adjusting my weekly training to maximize it, which is not good. I have been frustrated when Intervals.icu shows me in the gray zone…thinking that I’m not training appropriately and thus not getting stronger. It’s taken time to accept that with at most 10 hours per week I’ll never see a CTL above 75. :man_shrugging:

However, sleep and life stress (for me) directly impact my ability as a cyclist. There are days where I’m well-rested and can do very well on a 3-4 hour ride, and then there are days where I struggle with a 90min ride doing 3x15 @ FTP. Sometimes it makes no sense, but then I factor in all that happens in life and it makes sense. It’s frustrating though.

IMO experience is so valuable. This is where the current one-size-fits-all TR fails–AT might change that to a degree. Also, a person can read lab studies and attempt to apply those findings in their own training plan, but having a coach with vast experience in periodizing, working in racing, life things, and their anecdotal evidence (on what works) is really what makes a good coach able to make their clients fast.

3 Likes

post_deleted

post_deleted

I can get a CTL between 80 - 85 on 10 hours (although currently doing more hours than this), 80 is fine, 85 is starting to push the intensity though and isn’t sustainable long term.