Poor ramp testing

… and how accurately do you think your body can perform the same effort under similar conditions?

Which is another point entirely and had considered including in my previous reply. Personally, I’d be able to repeat the ramp test more reliably than 2x20
Threshold or 20 min test protocol or whatever. Less room for me to be affected by nutrition, fatigue, etc (all reasons why TR wanted to develop the ramp test, btw).

TR also looked at ability to complete workouts at the new ftp when they developed the ramp test not just comparing to 8/20 min tests, so… (this is according to Nate’s comments during the podcast).

It’s clear you prefer longer threshold intervals to test yourself. You know what, that’s fine!

I guess we agree to disagree. There are many workouts which test one’s power level that can be maintained for 60 minutes or thereabouts, and these workouts’ level is set based on the FTP you want to rename. If the value estimated by a ramp test was, in average, far away from the actual definition of FTP, these workouts would be either very easy to perform, or would be impossible.

Again, ftp is not hour power for everyone… according to Dr. Coggan. So you’re still only estimating ftp with those longer intervals. The only way not to estimate ftp is in the lab… most of us can’t do that regularly/ever.

As I’ve said many times, choose whatever estimate you feel represents you most accurately. You’re only trying to anchor your training so choose whatever you want to call it and test the same every time.

I certainly don’t think that those workouts are without worth. They obviously have their place in training. My only nit pick with your point is that you DO NOT need to test and then verify with sustained long intervals as you have suggested above. If you’re having difficulty completing the prescribed workouts, or you’re not progressing then I’d say maybe it’s a good idea. If you follow the prescribed training you’ll be doing long sweetspot/threshold intervals in no time and you’ll be able to see whether your estimated ftp is accurate (if you haven’t already figured it out at that point).

Or, of course, do the test and verify (how you like to do it) if you want. I just don’t think it’s necessary as most of the plans will make it clear if the estimate was close pretty quickly. Also, if that’s what you prefer than I just say that you shouldn’t bother with the shorter estimate protocols and do a longer validated protocol and then move on, skip the verification because that’s what you’ll find in your training.

Also, Chad has said before, your muscle endurance and ftp might not align well enough to actually allow you to exploit your ftp for longer intervals initially, so would you just bump your ftp down until you get to what you can sustain for whatever arbitrary cut off you choose? 30 mins? 60 mins? 90 mins? I guess you could, but you might be selling your aerobic adaptation short, and I wouldn’t really enjoy that method…

Well even if I test poorly the training does work.

Just back from the first post work club ride with some fast boys, not only did I hang with them (albeit them not pushing hard), I also set a best normalised power.

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