You are both correct. Your comment doesnt make theirs incorrect.
If you don’t have some (decent) swim fitness you cant improve form (beyond a certain level) When form starts to improve you learn this very rapidly.
You can swim a mile with decent form, but its easy, for it to, use your words become “trash” without swim fitness, which imo is very specific. I never though I get to the point where swim fitness is a thing, but I have and my form is sh!t.
I’ve improved my pool 1000m to 20:10 and 400m to 7:31. I feel it is going to be hard to improve from here.
Having said that my open water wetsuite swimming is terrible, I feel so unbalanced by the wetsuit and disoriented. Am I odd in this respect? We are talking 20 sec per 100m slower with a wetsuite in open water. Okay maybe 5s for the walls in the pool but there is something else going on. ???
Anybody can thrash their way through a mile, that’s not what I mean.
Having good form requires being fit. You cannot maintain proper position, body tautness, etc. for any meaningful amount of time without developing the swim fitness to do that. So you cannot develop good disciplined technique without also developing the fitness to hold it. People seem to think you can do a million drills and swim 6k a week and develop “form” then move onto fitness. That’s not how it works.
Sure, no disagreement. Volume is a necessary but not sufficient condition to significant improvement in the swim. If the question is “I’m going to swim 15k a week how to I get better” my answer isn’t volume, it’s ensuring sufficient intensity and technique focal points along the way. The question was as posed, I gave the highest impact workout in my experience, but said really nothing matters till the volume is there.
Swimming is by far the most technique driven of the three in tri. But people get in their heads (not saying this is your position) that you can just learn “technique” and get good. It’s just not the way it works. It’s not a golf swing. You have to learn the way your individual body moves through the water, you have to learn how to grab lots of water, you have to learn the way you need to hold your completely unique body in order to achieve good body position in the water.
You might swim fast holding your head high and I might swim faster holding it low. Maybe I sneak a breath late in the stroke cycle in a classic stroke, maybe you swim faster in the super early breath like Ledecki.
No one can figure out any of this stuff, or just generally understand how to move their body through the water, without lots and lots of time in the water. That’s what I’m saying.
I’m generally venting out feelings on swimming, I’m not trying to suggest the positions I’m contesting are ones you hold.
Any why would swimming be any different? I wouldn’t expect much improvement w/ 2k twice a week.
If you’re only going to swim once or twice a week and your goal is to swim faster, I wouldn’t do any “steady” or slow swimming. It is the least value-add type of swimming. It doesn’t help form and doesn’t really help fitness. What it does do is help to ingrain slow, crummy technique.
If you goal is to burn some calories and cross train for biking, then have at it.
With only time for 5 workouts a week, you’re going to have to choose your tradeoffs and set your expectations appropriately. That’s just not enough time to get good at two things.
Returning to the forum after over 1 year away and almost no training included. Im now coaching my kids swim team, in my second season and have learned quite a bit that i didn’t know back in my swimming days. I have found the one time using wetsuit that like you i slowed down. A few things i learned since then, besides pushing your legs up is that they are not that flexible and the amount of additional power during the pull is quite higher. the mobility also goes away, as much as trisuits are today are quite flexible. Per your swim times you are a very good efficient swimmer, so quite a bit of work using the wetsuit in training to adapt is needed (learned this from a fellow coach who also runs a university Div 2 program).
Update… I did a 2000 meter interval in 40 minutes last June, and 400 meters in 7:17.
I signed up for swimming training with the same triathlon club, I am also looking for a swimming pool to train on my own one or two times a week additionally.
I found that a good deal of the time I shaved from the 2022 summer to now is just wearing tight-fitting swimming trunks. But I also got about 10 seconds per 100 better in my 400 even after the equipment change so I am happy
I had a good run of maybe a month that i would go to the pool and feel great about it. Then last 2 weeks have been not great. The outdoor pool is closed (broken pump, no idea when it will open again) and I just dont want to go to the gym.
Ah, story of my life! I just started swimming again after like 9 months off so I can definitely relate to that, haha. Just waiting for the open water to warm up so I don’t have to see the pace clock anymore, it’s making me sad.
Any chance to corral some friends/family into hitting the gym with you? That’s usually my go-to when I’m not feeling it…bit of accountability, takes the pressure off, and I usually get a coffee out of it
I feel ya. Our outdoor pool closed on Aug 1st (out schools start crazy early and most of the life guards are high schoolers) and I’ve struggled to muster the motivation to get to my gym to swim. It’s too nice outside.