# Official Swimming thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [April 21, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651 "2021-04-21T19:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JoeX](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joex/32/6640_2.png) [@JoeX](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JoeX)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/101 "2021-06-14T17:12:45Z")
šŸ˜… I actually have two swim coaches at the moment, so Iā€™m getting plenty of advice. Usually they will pick on one thing for me to work on on my own, but it doesnā€™t mean that I get faster that week. ---
**Author:** ![JoeX](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joex/32/6640_2.png) [@JoeX](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JoeX)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/102 "2021-06-14T17:47:14Z")
> [@Joelrivera](#): > > How a person who can swim 1.11/100M consider himself a bad swimmerā€¦ > but they are a different level First of all what heā€™s really trying to get through his head is that thinking of yourself as a bad swimmer is counter productive. Secondly he is actually improving, and lastly heā€™s trying to become world champion! For us the first two points are still valid, the last not so much. I take a look at the competitors finishing around me and see how their swim split is, their bike and their run. For example, my short little race on Sunday was won by a guy 30s faster on the swim, 1min30 faster on the bike but 6mins faster on the run. So to become ā€œlocal championā€ Its fair to say I need work on my run more than my swim. Have a look at CoachCox for race stats, I think youā€™ll be surprised how many people are in the 2:00 or 2:10/100m category but have lightening bike and run. ---
**Author:** ![Joelrivera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joelrivera/32/145557_2.png) [@Joelrivera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Joelrivera)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/103 "2021-06-14T18:21:02Z")
> [@JoeX](#): > > For example, my short little race on Sunday was won by a guy 30s faster on the swim, 1min30 faster on the bike but 6mins faster on the run. So to become ā€œlocal championā€ Its fair to say I need work on my run more than my swim. My last race, international distance with a 750M swim (November 2020) Bike split 1. 1:05:46 2. 1:12:12 3. 1:10:40 Me: 1:08:26 Run split 1. 40:54 2. 44:03 3. 42:07 me: 42:42 If the race would have been a duathlon, I would have gotten 2nd over allā€¦ nowā€¦ the horrible partā€¦ SWIM! 1. 14:30 2. 12:14 3. 16:46 Me. 24:32 That was enough to push me to 11 OA. Its actually quite pathetic my swimmingā€¦ So for me, I would have to become a top 3 person I would have to swim 8 minutes fasterā€¦ and I canā€™t see that happening unless i can ā€œfeelā€ the waterā€¦ and thats it something i havenā€™t achieve yetā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![JoeX](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joex/32/6640_2.png) [@JoeX](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JoeX)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/104 "2021-06-14T18:31:23Z")
Move to a desert island where you have to swim to work šŸ‘ But seriously, 2:00/100m gets you 15:00 for 750 so youā€™re not that far off with your 2:10s. Consistent swimming - and coaching Iā€™m afraid - and you could be at 15:00 by November. My masters classes are costing me about Ā£15 each. ---
**Author:** ![Joelrivera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joelrivera/32/145557_2.png) [@Joelrivera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Joelrivera)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/105 "2021-06-14T21:27:00Z")
Then I see people on my feed who are just freaks of nature and make me sadā€¦ Guy a superb runnerā€¦ But he gets injured a lotā€¦ on a bad day, with 4 weeks of training off the couchā€¦ he can drop 16:30 5k. Trying to stay healthy he takes on cycling and swimmingā€¦ His cycling is as strong as his runningā€¦ (he did a 65 mile bike ride and then did a 19m brick 5k) his swimming is getting there nowā€¦ now he is swimming 63s 100sā€¦ šŸ˜­ ---
**Author:** ![Nprazeres](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nprazeres/32/12026_2.png) [@Nprazeres](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nprazeres)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/106 "2021-06-15T14:26:00Z")
I would keep my focus on the speed sessions but would introduce the gadget supported long interval session in your training week. What you described is consistent with some lack of quality in your breathing. We are all endurance trained stubborn like hell people, right? So we can handle efforts without proper breathing for quite a long time as a result. However, reaching a certain distance, we cannot fake lack of technique with grit and we hit the wall. It is either stop or adjust the pace by A LOT. It happened to me for years and it comes back when I return to the pool after being away for more than a couple of weeks. So try to focus a little more in your exhaling process while swimming at a slow pace and do it 25m at a time. The air needs to start to be released (mostly by the nose) as soon as your face returns to the water. Then just before inhaling but still under water you sort of do a final puff with your mouth. Vocalize the puff if needed to generate a rhythmic feedback to your brain. I always need to remember to recover this practice when I do the first laps of any session unless I am swimming almost daily (then it becomes natural). ---
**Author:** ![Joelrivera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joelrivera/32/145557_2.png) [@Joelrivera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Joelrivera)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/107 "2021-06-15T14:31:32Z")
> [@Nprazeres](#): > > The air needs to start to be released (mostly by the nose) I canā€™t swim without nose plug. Otherwise I would not be able to breath through the nose AT ALL for 2 daysā€¦ This problem is new-ish (late 2019?). But I get what you are sayingā€¦ I think you mentioned something similar a while ago, and Ive been trying to forcefully push more air while exhaling underwaterā€¦ When done right it feels much better when I breathā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![mikepstein](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mikepstein/32/67692_2.png) [@mikepstein](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mikepstein)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/108 "2021-06-15T19:43:31Z")
Got in my pool last night and the part of the main set was 7x 100s. Kept the paces very consistent +/- 1s on the first 5. (My pool is only 10m, so i avoid pushing off the wall). For the last 2 i wanted to see the difference in my normal lower stroke rate/more glide vs. higher stroke rate which would be needed if the waters are choppy. As I suspected, both times were a second apart, but boy did my form fall apart with the higher stroke rate and felt so much more fatigued. both were about 10s/100 m faster than the previous 5. Soā€¦I guess I have to work on stroke rate a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Willie76](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/willie76/32/12895_2.png) [@Willie76](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Willie76)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/109 "2021-06-15T20:12:13Z")
Mike, swimming efficiency is measure by stroke count ( or Distance Per stroke) matched with Stroke Rate. To swim faster you must improve DPS and or maintain SR. Most people will increase SR and Decrease DPS to do this. This will make u slower work harder and fatigue sooner. As you discovered it comes at a much higher metabolic cost. When working with a higher-level swimmer this is what we are avoiding in the closing stages of a race. I have never heard anyone suggest or recommend increasing SR due to swell or choppy water. I would be even more focused on maintaining your optimal SR and DPS at this time. Any Open water swimmers Iā€™ve coached we have found this to be the best practice. as for training focus on maintaining your DPS and make small improvements to SR. You will get faster and become more efficient this way. ---
**Author:** ![mikepstein](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mikepstein/32/67692_2.png) [@mikepstein](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mikepstein)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/110 "2021-06-15T20:32:54Z")
Very true. I have very ingrained slower rate from my old days of swimming, except on 50m races. Body composition has also changed alot from my teens to mid-40s, plus donā€™t swim often. WIth such a short pool length, it is quite comical a couple of long pulls i did and be halfway through! Wont comment on my paces yesterday so @Joelrivera doesnt put crying emojis šŸ™‚ But then you would outrun me everyday šŸ™‚ . ---
**Author:** ![SteveM](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/stevem/32/33075_2.png) [@SteveM](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/SteveM)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/111 "2021-06-15T21:12:40Z")
I like this graph that helps illustrates @Willie76ā€™s point. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/0/2/024fa6efe00627f9cabfac28914f6c73a67a56c0.jpeg) [SOURCE: Swim Smooth](http://www.feelforthewater.com/2019/03/the-bmi-chart-part-2-warning-if-you-are.html) I have heard a few tri focused swim coaches mention the higher stroke rate and a ā€œfront quadrantā€ stroke (shorter pull) for choppy OWS with the thought being it is more stable than a long gliding stroke. I donā€™t know if that theory ā€œholds waterā€ but I do know that unless to are keeping your form AND have the strength and fitness to increase the stroke rate, your DPS will go down and then you will suffer the consequences Willie76 mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![JoeX](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joex/32/6640_2.png) [@JoeX](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JoeX)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/112 "2021-06-15T21:47:31Z")
Iā€™m working on a higher stroke rate at the moment. It seems to me that you take it in turns to work on all of the things, one at a time. If you are working to increase your stroke rate and you donā€™t go faster (yet) that is fine - you are fixing the slow stroke rate part of your flaws. ---
**Author:** ![Joelrivera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joelrivera/32/145557_2.png) [@Joelrivera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Joelrivera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 12:15am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/113 "2021-06-16T00:15:50Z")
I need a bit of adviceā€¦i swim 3x per weekā€¦ Monday is swim onlyā€¦ Wednesday i have a run after Friday i have a ride either before or after ā€¦ How should I split things up? My plan was longer easy reps on Monday Set focusing on form Wednesday Speed sets on Fridaysā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![mikepstein](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mikepstein/32/67692_2.png) [@mikepstein](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mikepstein)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 12:36am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/114 "2021-06-16T00:36:12Z")
Thanks for sharing this! Really neat. Looking at the chart, though I didnā€™t quite count strokes but I know historically, for my 6th 100 was just inside the blue close to the cross over from blue to white, which is also where I felt very comfortable with some speed. I think the 7th set might have been pushing into the red. Next time out will do a couple counting strokes and add correction factor given my short pool. ---
**Author:** ![Willie76](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/willie76/32/12895_2.png) [@Willie76](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Willie76)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 1:21am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/115 "2021-06-16T01:21:24Z")
@SteveM the concepts your talkingabout are based around sprint vs mid/distance events. You will find sprint orientated swimmers will have higher SR, Lower DPS and focus more on an immeadiate catch vs glide at the front. This is due to the high force generation within this style of stroke. The high metabolic cost relates directly to the distance its swum. For Triā€™s the Latter is by FAR the better option. I cannot stress highly enough to learn to swim with greater efficency vs speed. I can gaurentee you will have a faster time over 1500+m if you swim at the same speed but with a lower metabolic cost. Also consider it as your already fast enought to cover 100m in 1:30 but canot maintain it for more than 200m. IF you can maintain this speed for 1500m thats a 22.30 time. ---
**Author:** ![Willie76](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/willie76/32/12895_2.png) [@Willie76](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Willie76)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/116 "2021-06-16T01:27:02Z")
@JoeX Iā€™m sorry mate but your statement doesnā€™t make sense. You need to be working on these concepts at a race pace. Yes, you do take turns in working on various areas, however, swimming is SO skill-specific that this is the #1 thing to focus on. I donā€™t care how FIT you think you are if youā€™re inefficient its not going to work. Working on swimming with a higher SR needs to be in the context of your event, Skills, and training phase. I would NOT focus on SR specifically Iā€™d be more inclined to focus on holding a specific count at a specific Speed. e.g complete 4 x 400ā€™s holding 6mins leaving on 7min holding 38 strokes every 2nd 50m. the progression from this may be 4 x 400m holding 5:45 leaving on6:30 same count. ---
**Author:** ![Willie76](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/willie76/32/12895_2.png) [@Willie76](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Willie76)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/117 "2021-06-16T01:30:36Z")
Mike I would do the follwing set to address this 8 x 100m decend with 30sec rest Hold SC (stroke Count) yes count every 50m or 2ns 25yards etc decend times every 2nd 100 ie 2 @ 1:45 2 @ 1:40 2 @ 1:35 and 2 @ 1:30 hold same stroke count for all. ( Times etc are just a geuss IDK how u swim but u get the idea.) ---
**Author:** ![JoeX](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joex/32/6640_2.png) [@JoeX](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JoeX)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/118 "2021-06-16T06:25:39Z")
> [@Willie76](#): > > Iā€™m sorry mate but your statement doesnā€™t make sense. Hi @Willie76 Iā€™m afraid I donā€™t understand what you are disagreeing with? Iā€™m also not sure I understand you when you say you have to work on these things at race pace? ---
**Author:** ![JoeX](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joex/32/6640_2.png) [@JoeX](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JoeX)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 6:36am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/119 "2021-06-16T06:36:22Z")
> [@Joelrivera](#): > > How should I split things up? > My plan was longer easy reps on Monday > Set focusing on form Tuesdays > Speed sets on Fridaysā€¦ Your focus on form needs to be in every session šŸ™‚ In my opinion of course. I tend to agree with SwimSmooth that you donā€™t need to be going hard in all your main sets, but some lengths at a high RPE in every sessionā€™s warm up helps you get your form together for your main set. Your main set needs to be at distances your can hold your form. If you try to swim easy but get worn out at 200m then there is little benefit spending much of your time on 400s. ---
**Author:** ![Joelrivera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/joelrivera/32/145557_2.png) [@Joelrivera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Joelrivera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651/120 "2021-06-16T13:18:08Z")
Make senseā€¦ so this morning I started adding a bit of longer intervalsā€¦ 75 yards - ā€œfastā€. It was a good distance where I could push the pace while keeping the correct form. 100 at the same pace would have been with broken form at 75 markā€¦ I also added few 25s for good measure. Been feeling much better with my right side swimmingā€¦ I feel so much faster breathing rightā€¦ not sure why since I feel much smoother breathing leftā€¦ [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651.md?page=5) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/official-swimming-thread/57651.md?page=7)