It’s not really a zone thing, unless you’re going anaerobic - if he burns 1000kJ and you burn 1000kJ then you both need to fuel for that.
Three aid stations on a 5k?
Did you mean 50k?
2 Likes
I’m saying think of it in terms of energy expenditure, kJ not zones or anything else.
If he burns the same as you, he burns the same as you.
1 Like
It was a ‘professional’ road race and also a family run/walk event. There were hundreds of families participating in the ‘family’ part, and lots of established local and state marathoners. Thinking back, I can only think that the leader/winner stopped at them because he was so far out in front. And it was a 10k, not a 5k, my bad. It was probably 6 years ago. I just remember guy-2 bragging about his ‘training’ process, and then possibly DNF the whole thing? You can overdo the caloric and water support, but under doing it is just stupid. As a result, I load-up on water and take a couple bars on outdoor rides. I might not snarf the bars, but I use the water. On hot days I’ll mix in some ‘hydration’ powder.
Guy-2 just looked so foolish…
Are you sure it was only a 10k? I can’t imagine a fast runner to stop at an aid station on a 10k, nevermind bonk, no matter how bad the fueling strategy. I’m an abysmal runner, and run 10k in under an hour.
4 Likes
Just a general comment. What are you training your body to do when you do this. I thought this myself after doing a brutal 30 mile ride in freezing weather,
I kept thinking that I may be training my body to retain as much fat and sugar as it can because this sudden assault could happen again. For me, I pushed myself to a place I don’t go often, and felt it the next day. I even stayed a second day to ‘recover’. I did the event because it was a challenge. It was 30 miles of hills and single track, and the weather was nasty, frigid and raining on top of it all. So many people didn’t even show for the start, and the number that DNF was higher than the previous year, yet I refused to quit. But what did I program my body to do. Was it constructive to do that. And I ate an entire pizza that night, which was delicious, but what did I accomplish. I mean, aside from proving that I was crazy enough to do it (twice).
Sorry if this seems like I’m criticizing you. I’m just always wondering what I’m teaching my body to do, and trying to not wreck it. (MY wife read me the symptoms of rhabdo, and I assured her I was fine🥸)
1 Like
Literally had the exact same thought….I’m not even grabbing a cup of water for a 10k.
1 Like
This all being said, since I started fueling properly while ON the bike. I have now discovered that I am able to moderate my eating much better when OFF the bike. It used to be impossible for me to turn a salad into a meal. I would get too hungry before the next meal. But because I’m fueling while training much better, I almost always eat a salad for lunch now
I think this is the most overlooked benefit of heavy carb fueling on the bike, I am in your boat at 6’4" 200 lbs went for a 2 hr mountain bike ride last night, with a good amount of steep VO2 max climbing, right after work with no dinner. Was ingesting ~60 g carbs an hour. Previously when I wouldn’t fuel I would be starving and the fast-food or chipotle with extra guac on the way home would always get me 
. Now I finish tired but not starving and I can go home to make something healthy.
1 Like
Fully agree, moving the calories into my workouts has just made it so much easier to eat better off the bike, I just don’t have to spend mental energy stopping myself eating nutrient low food . This just decreases stress across the board for me. Plus if I have a break from training I don’t have to worry as much about changing my eating habits.
another anecdote for the OP, I used to ride with a group just like this and I found that they were good at pacing their rides to suit their choices, and since it was their group they chose the routes too, so their goals kind of became what they could achieve?
You can probably make gains becoming more fat adapted, but I don’t think they’re worth it, you can probably make bigger gains elsewhere atm.
2 Likes
My rule for eating on the bike is simple, eat whenever I feel like I need to regardless of how short or long the ride is. I always have a few gels or bars in my top tube bag so I just reach in whenever I want. To me it really that simple.
2 Likes
Fair point, but I find it harder to control the continuous craving for easy calories throughout the day after running a calorie deficit through exercise, which ends up meaning more low nutrient calories (for me). Maybe I could build the discipline but I don’t think the gains are worth it.
2 Likes
Yes, of course, but it’s being the dextrose/fructose is being consumed as you ride. We are talking about after-ride hunger leading to poor food decisions. I’m physically less hungry so I can make it home to have nutritious food.
It’s a mental thing for me when I ride without calories, I’m like oh I am in a 1000 calorie deficit let’s go get a hamburger and fries. Lowering the willpower barrier is always a good thing.
For me, nothing except creating the discipline to do that, and id rather spend that effort (and avoid the mental stress that goes with it) elsewhere because I don’t think the “fat adaption” benefit is worth it.
1 Like
I think the idea is to shift the most calories to when you are burning the most. Its also that most people are better at controlling the quality of food post-ride if they fuel during. A treat after the ride IS acceptable, but not eating during makes most people eat the entire fridge after.
Btw gummy bears and coke are awesome on the bike and are being used when you are burning the most calories, instead of before bed.
2 Likes
Not be harsh but to answer your question;
the dumb one?
They’re all behind you in your draft laughing at you while they soft pedal home at 70% of the effort you’re doing.
3 Likes
It is definitely all subjective, where personally all willpower and sense of portion control goes out the window for me after a longer ride without calories. At the end of the day I would say the 600 calories of sugar on the bike then eating a healthy vegetable protein meal after is better for me than no calories on the bike and going deep on a cheese burger and fries.
Don’t get me wrong I still do the cheese burger and fries but just not as often.
3 Likes
I found the way to deal with the after-ride meal is to have something ready at home that needs minimal prep, but is “proper food”. If I plan for a long ride, I’ll try to cook more the day before, so that I have leftovers that just need warming up at home when I come back.
Though to be honest, I’m usually not very hungry when I come back, regardless of eating or not eating on the bike. The ravenous sweet cravings all come when I sit at my desk for work.
5 Likes
no
Agreed but it’s the what and when you fuel for it. If I went for a 2000 kJ ride with MVDP at his recovery power I’m fairly sure I’d have to neck 500g of pure sugar to try and keep up with him . He on the other would barely touch his glycogen stores and could refuel when he wanted whenever he wanted if he didn’t want to lose weight.
1 Like
No, I disagree entirely 
Your emphasis on “recovery power” makes no sense. And the idea that you have to use a completely different biological mechanism to burn the same amount of kJ is overstating and essentially irrelevant.
If you burn 1000kJ - I don’t care how you do it - and someone else burns 1000kJ you essentially have the same fuelling need. It’s that simple.
I rarely advocate reducing biological processes to thermodynamics, in fact I usually rail against it, but this is taking things too far.
2 Likes