# New TR feature - FTP estimate - thoughts **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [December 28, 2021, 11:01am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927 "2021-12-28T11:01:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Rosscopeco](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/rosscopeco/32/90801_2.png) [@Rosscopeco](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Rosscopeco)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 6:51am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/342 "2022-01-22T06:51:20Z")
> [@jz91](#): > > Why are many so many people so afraid to do a 20 30 or longer minutes test? Are they afraid of discovering their FTP because they associate it to their real worth as a cyclist or what exactly is the problem? In my case it’s not fear holding me back. Ramp test= Why bother when I know the result is totally off. 40+ minutes all out= Pretty freaking hard to do without an interruption of some sort where I ride. Impossible to stay motivated on a trainer indoors. 8min or 20min test= Hard to do indoors. Harder to do outdoors with interruptions. Plus I hate sitting just above threshold unless I’m actually chasing something. > [@jz91](#): > > Any estimate can only be derived by all out efforts which for longer durations means… Doing a proper FTP test. Seriously? I’ve only been cycling for the last few years and I can get a good guesstimate of my FTP without going all out for extended periods. ✌ ---
**Author:** ![kevistraining](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/kevistraining/32/171237_2.png) [@kevistraining](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/kevistraining)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:21am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/343 "2022-01-22T07:21:31Z")
> [@jz91](#): > > Why are many so many people so afraid to do a 20 30 or longer minutes test? Not saying this isn’t a case for some people but there are definitely people who would rather do a proper 1 to 2 hour workout instead of doing a ramp test - the result of which they will probably know judging by how their workouts have been feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Abidingdude](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/abidingdude/32/12890_2.png) [@Abidingdude](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Abidingdude)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/345 "2022-01-22T14:18:33Z")
I would rather do an actual productive workout than a ramp test. If they’ve come up with a way to get a good estimate without data from a maximal effort, I’m all for it. And if I’m half way through a block and it feels like my FTP is way off (like mine feels right now), I’m not going to retest. If there was a button to press that estimates where I’m at, I’d definitely do that. ---
**Author:** ![Yep](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/yep/32/67179_2.png) [@Yep](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Yep)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/346 "2022-01-23T13:10:22Z")
> [@ChefAcB](#): > > Not all hope is lost when you hit 40, I have heard on this forum some guys getting stronger as they age, even being in there 50s and 60s. I’m 46 and while I’m maybe not getting stronger, I’m at least plateued, but then if I could lose weight, I could get w/kg PRs (sitting at about 4.3 now). ---
**Author:** ![N8lewis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/n8lewis/32/34316_2.png) [@N8lewis](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/N8lewis)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/347 "2022-01-23T13:31:29Z")
TRs ftp math can’t be worse than “300 or bust” ---
**Author:** ![Bigpikle](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bigpikle/32/11213_2.png) [@Bigpikle](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Bigpikle)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/348 "2022-01-23T16:58:37Z")
> [@mcneese.chad](#): > > Change = Bad > Same = Bad > New = Bad > Different = Bad > More = Bad > Less = Bad > Nothing = Bad > Everything = Bad Outdoor rides AT = VERY good 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/349 "2022-01-23T17:01:25Z")
Much rejoicing to be had when that happens 😃 👍 ---
**Author:** ![HLaB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hlab/32/60448_2.png) [@HLaB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/HLaB)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/350 "2022-01-23T17:02:16Z")
I’m 46 too and also sitting around that but I was talking to someone today who is at least in his mid 50s and with doing more gym stuff he’s comfortably beyond the 5w/kg and winning races (his tactics also come to play there though and not just strength). ---
**Author:** ![TooManyDogs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/toomanydogs/32/98121_2.png) [@TooManyDogs](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/TooManyDogs)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/351 "2022-01-23T17:16:29Z")
> [@Abidingdude](#): > > I would rather do an actual productive workout than a ramp test. If they’ve come up with a way to get a good estimate without data from a maximal effort, I’m all for it. And if I’m half way through a block and it feels like my FTP is way off (like mine feels right now), I’m not going to retest. If there was a button to press that estimates where I’m at, I’d definitely do that. I currently have a coach and the last couple of ftp tests I’ve done I’ve completely bonked and she’s like “we’re ignoring that test and keeping your ftp as is” and that’s because I was almost never failing any workouts. I’d be fine with an ftp estimate. But my goals are pretty modest and I mostly know what hard workouts should feel like and can sense when my ftp is way off. Being a few watts off on either direction is little concern to me. ---
**Author:** ![Yep](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/yep/32/67179_2.png) [@Yep](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Yep)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/352 "2022-01-23T17:37:11Z")
> [@HLaB](#): > > I’m 46 too and also sitting around that but I was talking to someone today who is at least in his mid 50s and with doing more gym stuff he’s comfortably beyond the 5w/kg and winning races (his tactics also come to play there though and not just strength). That’s really interesting. I should be clear, I’m not winning races as a cat 3, but had I not skipped some races last year, I think I’d have been a 2 and podiums in 3/4s are a reasonable target. I need to get on that strength work, but I think I’m still getting slightly stronger, setting aside weight and weight training. I’ll stop derailling this thread now. ---
**Author:** ![SDooley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3e96dc/32.png) [@SDooley](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/SDooley)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/353 "2022-01-23T17:41:50Z")
Not sure a FTP estimate is going to make a rider faster. I believe FTP testing every 4-6 weeks is too much. Probably only need to test once every 4 months. If a cyclist has been training long enough they will have a sense of if the work they are putting in is getting easier, than bump the FTP if one doesn’t want to test. I also think a good hard FTP test is worth it. If people don’t want to put out max effort for 20 minutes that strikes me as not wanting to put in any kind of hard intervals. That’s what a FTP test is ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Pearson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nate_pearson/32/117463_2.png) [@Nate\_Pearson](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nate_Pearson)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/354 "2022-01-23T22:57:59Z")
> [@AlphaDogCycling](#): > > To solve this, have you considered allowing people to schedule an FTP estimation, and then TR could run the estimation overnight? For example: let’s say I know I’m going to have a test week the week of January 31, and I schedule TR to give me an estimated FTP on January 31. TR could run the estimation between midnight and 5am local time on Jan 31st, so when I get up, the estimated FTP shows up in my account. This is how it works right now. But if you add it that day (like you add a ramp test to check), that’s when it will take a bit of time. ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Pearson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nate_pearson/32/117463_2.png) [@Nate\_Pearson](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nate_Pearson)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/355 "2022-01-23T23:01:41Z")
> [@jz91](#): > > I mean it’s nice to have software that can detect any improvement and so on but not if it comes at the expense of other projects such as improving training plans. This same piece of ML is used to predict FTP based on what’s on your calendar. Then it should be able to optimize training plans based on different scenarios for individuals. At least that’s what the vision is. We’re just detecting what the FTP is today vs predicting what it is in the future. So this is one “UI” stop of adding value in the roadmap to some crazy stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Pearson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nate_pearson/32/117463_2.png) [@Nate\_Pearson](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nate_Pearson)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/356 "2022-01-23T23:04:48Z")
> [@kevistraining](#): > > Not saying this isn’t a case for some people but there are definitely people who would rather do a proper 1 to 2 hour workout instead of doing a ramp test - the result of which they will probably know judging by how their workouts have been feeling. And you can come in with some fatigue and not worry. Like I never like to do a hard workout(s) the weekend before a ramp test. Plus we’ll be able to detect when an FTP could change in the middle of a block. That’s not much of an issue for all the forum users who are experienced athletes but for a new rider that can be killer. They can get some huge off the couch improvements in the first 6 weeks of a plan. ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Pearson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nate_pearson/32/117463_2.png) [@Nate\_Pearson](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nate_Pearson)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/357 "2022-01-23T23:05:42Z")
> [@Abidingdude](#): > > And if I’m half way through a block and it feels like my FTP is way off (like mine feels right now), I’m not going to retest. If there was a button to press that estimates where I’m at, I’d definitely do that. Exactly. And you get no training interruption. ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Pearson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nate_pearson/32/117463_2.png) [@Nate\_Pearson](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nate_Pearson)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/358 "2022-01-23T23:18:09Z")
> [@SDooley](#): > > Not sure a FTP estimate is going to make a rider faster. I believe FTP testing every 4-6 weeks is too much. Probably only need to test once every 4 months. If a cyclist has been training long enough they will have a sense of if the work they are putting in is getting easier, than bump the FTP if one doesn’t want to test. This is another good point. I would like to make it where we don’t schedule FTP tests on your calendar and just detect when it needs to be raised and let the athlete know. This would be similar to a coach watching your workouts. They keep making them harder until you get to a point where you need to raise the wattage on all of them to keep progressing. The rate of that increase depends soooo much on training history. Consider the following scenarios. 1. Off the couch athlete who has never done a workout 2. Athlete with 5.0 w/kg with 20 years of consistent training 3. Athlete who peaked at 5.0 w/kg when they were 30 but hasn’t done any training in 2 years. 4. Athlete in their first year of training and at 3.0 w/kg It’s hard to have a best testing frequency for all of those athletes. And It’s hard to say that they will all execute a test with the same precision or have the desire to go all out in a test. ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 4:00am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/359 "2022-01-24T04:00:51Z")
Split this topic on January 24, 2022, 4:00am UTC A post was merged into an existing topic: [Feature request/idea: Add intervals during workout / switching to +1 versions](https://www.trainerroad.com/t/feature-request-idea-add-intervals-during-workout-switching-to-1-versions/4942/42) ---
**Author:** ![macleodm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@macleodm](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/macleodm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/360 "2022-01-24T01:00:10Z")
Well I’m not a fan of the ramp test - one coming up Tuesday. It will leave me a gasping heaving mess running outside in kit in -15C bc I can’t suck in enough wind. And I’ll likely be disappointed in the result However, I like the idea over time that I will get some kind of idea of progress. Maybe that’s optimistic. I’d like to see that the work = fitness progress. My objective here isn’t to race but to be a stronger more competent road cyclist in my terrain which include some intermediate length/grade climbs. I’m spending the time and the money and effort - I would like an idea of progress. I’m not at a point yet where I am content puttering or just riding my bike. Hopefully not for a while. Yes I understand that “the number” is subject to so many variables and I’m trying not to work to a performance result. But again if the result helps to formulate a training program that helps me improve, not nuke, I’m in So yes I will probably test ongoing. What will be interesting is if estimated FTP is even close to test results - and if not, then more importantly why not? ---
**Author:** ![Rizzi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/rizzi/32/17674_2.png) [@Rizzi](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Rizzi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/362 "2022-01-24T01:41:40Z")
Speaking about FTP prediction: Is this tied to TR plans or more flexible? I mean what if you looked at someone’s past training phases…would you see that someone might have had better results on individual trainings vs TR plans. Would FTP prediction consider that and prescribe/adjust training outside the bounds of a TR plan framework? Or maybe the better question to ask is: Could FTP prediction go back at my past training and then tell me what it thinks worked best for me (by projecting forward from different points in the past)? ---
**Author:** ![hubcyclist](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hubcyclist/32/14363_2.png) [@hubcyclist](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/hubcyclist)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927/363 "2022-01-24T01:45:05Z")
The amount of people who will get disappointed that their rides just aren’t that much work for progression levels is going to be somewhat hilarious. No, doing a couple of 3min efforts isn’t going to get your vo2 level high lol [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927.md?page=14) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/new-tr-feature-ftp-estimate-thoughts/66927.md?page=16)