New Feature - TrainNow

At what point does it not count towards completed/progression?

I am wondering as an example I am doing a 2 hour endurance but need to get off for a break to answer a call or help with something and get back on and finish. I did not have a problem and would not have stopped but life gets in the way sometimes.

Edit: also ftp and progression are sort of linked right? Example is I have 300 ftp and get through 6 weeks of TN suggestions. Raise my ftp to 310 and next workout is based on ftp of 300 progression level??

:white_check_mark: :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark: Yippee! Did Homer’s Nose -1 from the calendar right after this clarification, and it all came out right on the, um, nose. TR shows the completed ride under the TR workout name, and so it presumably counts in future dosing (though in my case, not much!) Thanks again for clarifying, per Nate’s “repeat it until we get it” rule. :wink:

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It largely depends on when you take the break. AT makes allowances for breaks during rest intervals, but if you take a break during a work interval it will typically interpret this as a sign that the workout was a challenge. Once full Adaptive Training functionality is rolled out, you’ll have the opportunity to override the assessment of your workout in the post-workout survey if you think it was made in error. For now, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Worst-case scenario you’ll just get recommended another workout at roughly that same level next time.

When your FTP increases, your Progression Levels decline a bit. Thus, you’ll be initially recommended slightly easier workouts, but at the higher workload of your increased FTP. It’s nice after a ramp test, since a bump in FTP no longer results in an initial week of hard workouts we’ve all come to know and “love” over the years.

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Perfect and appreciate the clarification.

Makes more sense to me when following a TR plan which is why I asked but dont know if or when I will add one as this is working good.

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Some more info for those attempting to use outdoor workouts that might be useful - this may be useful feedback I got from support - I was wondering about how much latitude we have to adjust interval timing to line it up with an appropriate stretch of road. Seems like there is good flexibility built in here. So, still seeding data this way even though Wahoo isn’t working - I think I read somewhere that when fixed, it’s expected to look back retroactively as well.

In regards to shortening a recovery interval, this should not affect workout classification at all. Making a recovery interval longer can affect it, but it’s not likely. The single recovery interval would need to be extended to be longer than half the total duration of the entire workout in order to affect classification if I remember correctly.

Concerning super passes, cutting recovery intervals short wouldn’t affect your ability to attain a super pass positively or negatively, even though that does make the workout more difficult. The criteria for a super pass is still being perfected at the moment so hopefully, we will get that taken care of soon.

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ugh sounds like coffee / beer stops for >50% of my ride will negatively impact me

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I’m not on AT Beta, but the answer from TR re rest periods begs the question how will AT deal with the extra laps created in an outside workout when there is a time gap between the end of the rest period and the start of the next work interval?

The consequence of a delay in pressing"lap button to continue" is extra rest, but the reason for doing so is to get to a safe and suitable location to start the next interval, and nothing to do with ability to complete the intervals

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Another interesting suggestion from TrainNow. I really like this feature and finding some cool workouts.

Azurite is a “brute” in Coach Chad’s words, and it sure looks like it. I’m not sure I am game to tackle that within a training plan.

I just thought I’d have another look as I’m going to bump my FTP a tiny bit shorty which will reset my levels/suggestions.

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About the last paragraph will TN in the future account for outdoor unstructured rides even those done without a powermeter? I Guess maybe if we after the upload to TR calendar manually add the RPE from that Ride estimating its TSS. Or it wont do that and only rides done with a powermeter have a chance to get in TN equation by allowing a more precise estimation on the powerzones and TSS of the ride?

Our current (tentative) plan is to allow RPE-Based Structured Outside Workouts to eventually count towards Progression Levels (and as a result, TrainNow) based on your self-assessment on the post-workout survey. Of course, this won’t be as accurate or nuanced as power data, but for athletes who are training inside with power and outside without it, for instance, it would be accurate and useful enough to be of real value. We’ll keep you updated on when this feature will be added as we gradually build out more Adaptive Training functionality.

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Any official info on this? Currently on a LV plan but I am considerung using TrainNow instead. I would like to chose 75min TrainNow workouts and add 30-45 minutes of L2 during the recovery. Will that mess things up?

My quote was a copy paste from TR support

Remember, if using wahoo, it remains completely broken and you will get absurdly easy and non updating recommendations in TrainNow. Very frustrating that it’s well over a month after launch with no fix.

I think this mindset is one of that main problems Nate was worried about - Beta is most definitely NOT after launch, it’s explicitly pre-launch to identify issues (like this) and fix in a prioritized way.

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The issue is that TrainNow is a launched feature. AT is what’s in beta currently. That said, they’re intertwined, so technically TrainNow has some beta elements baked into it and that should be more clear.

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TrainNow is out - it’s not a beta. In the production apps for all users. This is why so many are disappointed in TR right now. Seems that too much was rushed under market pressure before it was ready and now it seems like they are just drowning and overwhelmed.

I mean, forget more the complex issue of processing of wahoo workout compliance for TrainNow, we still have broken outside workouts where following a static plan I still get a botched up outside version like Bays adding 50% more time and more sprint intervals. How is something so simple still not fixed a year after release and no ETA? It does not bode well for something as complex as the AT pitch.

Even just publishing the workout progression levels is hitting multi week snags and that’s pretty core to all of this.

Hope they can turn it around but starting to doubt this will all be ironed out before fall.

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I can hear your frustration clearly – but with 4+ years of TR usage under your belt and a familiarity with TR workouts and how they are designed, I bet you can achieve great results without being reliant on your device outdoors.

With the Bays workout for example, I just glanced at it for a moment. In my head, that reads “noodle around for 8 minutes. Go like hell for 20-30 seconds. /rinse /repeat”. Sure, it might not align to a specific TR chart, when you upload it — but whatever physiological adaptations it is designed to produce will be perfectly acceptable.

In other words, it’s fair to be frustrated if you think there are bugs in the software – but if you leverage your long history with TR, I bet you can achieve absolutely the same quality results whether you’re indoors or outside, without even using an electronic device.

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That’s a fair point - I think I misunderstood some of the complaints, I mean if it’s failing to get the simple outside workout translations that’s far before TrainNow, that does seem mediocre.

To first order, totally agree. Thanks to annual legacy pricing, I am hanging around till August to see if it gets better. (perhaps one of the best arguments for it is periods like this. When I was at monthly rate years ago, I would have said just like you, “you know, I can just do my own thing without TR and check back in 3 months to see if this is all ironed out.”)

But at the same time, I got really excited and motivated about what I was hearing on the podcast, so have been trying to maintain tight structure to leverage TrainNow (and hopefuly AT) to stay on track - and so many issues like this really muck it up.

Even if they were processing Wahoo, if I skip the extra sprints/time assigned in the inflated outdoor version and just execute the workout’s original TSS intent cutting things short, does that give me a fail in the new progression system?

And with all the challenges they already have going on with AT, stuff like this could have been totally avoidable if you just fix the workouts vs. try to come up with new rules to manage the fact that you’ve got two completely different workouts inside and outside, etc. But it seems that kind of stuff is on the back burner, and you can bet this question will come up again and again as they keep bringing people into AT, or people find these issues in TrainNow. Which is a vortex sucking up more resources…

This is where I’m getting a feeling that they have really bit off way too much without sufficiently polishing the foundation that feeds it and it’s looking like a big mountain to dig out of.

From the perspective of a total newbie I’ve found TrainNow to work well. I did a ramp test and since then the workouts it has suggested have been achievable and have slowly increased in difficulty while still being doable.

I had a couple of weeks where apart from an outdoor TR workout I either ran or did unstructured rides and the suggested workouts did drop very slightly in difficulty but not by enough to become too easy.

It gets a thumbs up from me :+1:

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This is pretty cool…is there a downside to looking at a scheduled workout as part of a training plan, and using the training zone and workout time to swap for the TrainNow suggested workout?

I think the main thing missing from the AT part is that this is a big part of what AT is doing, in addition to some additional (harder to do) fine tuning beyond that.