New Feature - TrainNow

Great question; BOTH! Every time a TrainerRoad indoor or outdoor workout is completed, the TrainNow suggestions could potentially change afterwards. In terms of looking at your prior rides, those endurance, climbing, and attacking workouts completed are all considered when TrainNow suggests a workout in accordance to your Progression Levels in those respective zones. Pretty slick!

2 Likes

Thank you

Sounds great, sorry if this has been asked before but are rides associated with a TR ride also included e.g. if I follow the workout structure on my Garmin head unit and then associate it with a TR workout once uploaded

@IvyAudrain I’m just about to start SSB2, my ftp is roughly correct & I’m pretty ok at VO2 max workouts. I’m thinking of starting the VO2max workout progression with Bluebell or Baird +2 because I’m reasonably sure I can complete them without issue. Would doing either of these progress my Attacking TrainNow suggestions to a more suitable level assuming I complete them well? I’m an mtb rider in New England, often on a single speed & I spend a boatload of time pegging V02max & Anaerobic wattage. Looking at my unstructured ride data, I’m often above threshold for well over 25% of my ride time.

Same question here. And thanks @IvyAudrain and @SeanHurley for fielding these burning questions from us devotees of the new feature. I’ve been trying to do longer endurance rides outside, weather permitting, and intervals indoors. Pushing TR rides on to my Garmin Edge 530 has been great – except that the synching can get pretty confused once I or the system makes a mistake and we try to recover. I’m not sure I understand the difference to TrainNow (and AT when it comes) between an official TR workout performed Outside, and an outside workout “Associated” with an official TR workout, if there is one. In the last weeks I have several outside rides in my career labeled as TR workouts. Monday the Rx was Perkins -! and it showed up pre-ride on my head unit as expected. But I had to faff around a bit to re-pair sensors, and in the process Perkins disappeared from the head unit before I even began. I pushed it back onto the head unit, where it behaved normally, and I rode everything to the letter. No problem uploading it to Connect, and thence to TR.

EXCEPT that it showed up just as an unstructured Afternoon Ride. I edited the ride name to remind me that it was Perkins -1. If I click it on the calendar TR has added a block that says “Associated with Perkins -1.” By contrast, from the week before TR shows Pettit -1 (done outside) as Pettit -1 and also includes the “Associated” note. Are all / none / some of these outside rides included in TrainNow cogitations? If I mess up on the synching pre-ride, but ride as prescribed, is there any way retroactively to get its vote counted? On last week’s ride, I inadvertently selected the shorter of two uploaded rides on the Edge (easy to do on Garmin, and no Undo ). I kept to the longer route and when I got to Workout Ended, simply did the last 3rd home as a New Ride, which is recorded in Career unassociated with anything. Makes sense to me – all one TR ride as prescribed – but I’m not sure I can tell the TR Brain that.

Sean says:

For the time being TrainNow is looking at your indoor TrainerRoad workouts, as well as outside workouts recorded using Garmin head units.

Would be great if TN is including any outside ride recorded on a Garmin, but I suspect that Sean meant only real TR workouts ridden outside with all the secret identifiers intact, and no second chance.

Sorry to add to anyone’s workload with questions like this – since you guys have been phenomenally productive in the last months. Hate to be punishing you for delivering all these new goodies!

1 Like

Let me try to explain how this is currently working!

  1. TrainNow references your Progression Levels (even if you’re not on the AT beta and can’t see them yet) in the relevant training zones. That’s the only thing it’s looking at, as we’ve mentioned previously. So its singular goal is to recommend suitable workouts for your current abilities in those particular zones.

  2. Progression Levels are currently affected by ALL completed TrainerRoad indoor rides, planned or unplanned.

  3. Progression Levels are currently affected by planned TR Outside Workouts pushed to Garmin head units before your ride. Currently, outside workouts retroactively associated with a TR workout after the fact are not affecting Progression Levels in the same way, but if the workout was pushed to your head unit before you did it, it should count.
    (Example of when it wouldn’t count: I do a self-guided VO2 max workout outside that is loosely based around Broken Finger. After the ride, I manually associate the workout in TR with Broken Finger.)

  4. Progression Levels (and by extension, TrainNow) are not currently affected by any Outside Workouts done on Wahoo head units, but this is a known issue being addressed by our engineering team.

Eventually, we’re planning to have your Progression Levels (and thus, TrainNow) be affected by ALL rides, whether or not they’re unstructured or structured, indoors or out. But for the time being, the above conditions apply. I hope that clarifies for you all! Let me know if you still have questions. @oldcrank @Kris_Wyman

23 Likes

Got it. Thank you!

1 Like

Thanks, Sean! Your Point 3 is a clearer answer than my question was.

The takeaway for me is that if weather beckons me for an ad hoc outdoor ride, I need to insure before riding that I have not simply pushed it to the Garmin but scheduled it on the calendar and let it arrive at the Garmin via the calendar route, so it’s seen as planned. I do understand your example that a retroactive association of a ride I’ve already done doesn’t qualify at this point. No further clarification needed unless by “planned” you mean the ride has to be not just a recognized TR workout that I have scheduled on the calendar for that day, but also that I have to be on a recognized TR Plan and doing the right workout on the designated day.

Right- it doesn’t need to be a Training Plan- assigned workout, just a workout that existed on your calendar before you did it and that was affirmatively pushed to your head unit.

2 Likes

At what point does it not count towards completed/progression?

I am wondering as an example I am doing a 2 hour endurance but need to get off for a break to answer a call or help with something and get back on and finish. I did not have a problem and would not have stopped but life gets in the way sometimes.

Edit: also ftp and progression are sort of linked right? Example is I have 300 ftp and get through 6 weeks of TN suggestions. Raise my ftp to 310 and next workout is based on ftp of 300 progression level??

:white_check_mark: :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark: Yippee! Did Homer’s Nose -1 from the calendar right after this clarification, and it all came out right on the, um, nose. TR shows the completed ride under the TR workout name, and so it presumably counts in future dosing (though in my case, not much!) Thanks again for clarifying, per Nate’s “repeat it until we get it” rule. :wink:

1 Like

It largely depends on when you take the break. AT makes allowances for breaks during rest intervals, but if you take a break during a work interval it will typically interpret this as a sign that the workout was a challenge. Once full Adaptive Training functionality is rolled out, you’ll have the opportunity to override the assessment of your workout in the post-workout survey if you think it was made in error. For now, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Worst-case scenario you’ll just get recommended another workout at roughly that same level next time.

When your FTP increases, your Progression Levels decline a bit. Thus, you’ll be initially recommended slightly easier workouts, but at the higher workload of your increased FTP. It’s nice after a ramp test, since a bump in FTP no longer results in an initial week of hard workouts we’ve all come to know and “love” over the years.

2 Likes

Perfect and appreciate the clarification.

Makes more sense to me when following a TR plan which is why I asked but dont know if or when I will add one as this is working good.

1 Like

Some more info for those attempting to use outdoor workouts that might be useful - this may be useful feedback I got from support - I was wondering about how much latitude we have to adjust interval timing to line it up with an appropriate stretch of road. Seems like there is good flexibility built in here. So, still seeding data this way even though Wahoo isn’t working - I think I read somewhere that when fixed, it’s expected to look back retroactively as well.

In regards to shortening a recovery interval, this should not affect workout classification at all. Making a recovery interval longer can affect it, but it’s not likely. The single recovery interval would need to be extended to be longer than half the total duration of the entire workout in order to affect classification if I remember correctly.

Concerning super passes, cutting recovery intervals short wouldn’t affect your ability to attain a super pass positively or negatively, even though that does make the workout more difficult. The criteria for a super pass is still being perfected at the moment so hopefully, we will get that taken care of soon.

4 Likes

ugh sounds like coffee / beer stops for >50% of my ride will negatively impact me

2 Likes

I’m not on AT Beta, but the answer from TR re rest periods begs the question how will AT deal with the extra laps created in an outside workout when there is a time gap between the end of the rest period and the start of the next work interval?

The consequence of a delay in pressing"lap button to continue" is extra rest, but the reason for doing so is to get to a safe and suitable location to start the next interval, and nothing to do with ability to complete the intervals

2 Likes

Another interesting suggestion from TrainNow. I really like this feature and finding some cool workouts.

Azurite is a “brute” in Coach Chad’s words, and it sure looks like it. I’m not sure I am game to tackle that within a training plan.

I just thought I’d have another look as I’m going to bump my FTP a tiny bit shorty which will reset my levels/suggestions.

2 Likes

About the last paragraph will TN in the future account for outdoor unstructured rides even those done without a powermeter? I Guess maybe if we after the upload to TR calendar manually add the RPE from that Ride estimating its TSS. Or it wont do that and only rides done with a powermeter have a chance to get in TN equation by allowing a more precise estimation on the powerzones and TSS of the ride?

Our current (tentative) plan is to allow RPE-Based Structured Outside Workouts to eventually count towards Progression Levels (and as a result, TrainNow) based on your self-assessment on the post-workout survey. Of course, this won’t be as accurate or nuanced as power data, but for athletes who are training inside with power and outside without it, for instance, it would be accurate and useful enough to be of real value. We’ll keep you updated on when this feature will be added as we gradually build out more Adaptive Training functionality.

4 Likes

Any official info on this? Currently on a LV plan but I am considerung using TrainNow instead. I would like to chose 75min TrainNow workouts and add 30-45 minutes of L2 during the recovery. Will that mess things up?