Fun fact…if you look at a distribution of Wingate test results it’s pretty much a normal distribution centered around 200% of Wmax. So if you wanted to approximate a Wingate test on TR 30s @ 200% FTP ought to just about do it.
Of course, StDev of that distribution is quite large so individual variation applies.
So we could make a TR called Burgomaster that is 10min spin at 50% then 6x 30s@200%, 4min@50%. FUN TIMES!
I’m not sure if you were deliberately exaggerating on the benefits of 2 hours indoors versus an outdoor 5+ hour ride. I agree that trainers are more time effective, but I don’t believe the adaptations are inherently better than an outdoor ride of equal pedaling time and power (average and normalized). I’d say the continuous effort versus stochastic effort is worth something, but not THAT much. I personally make up for the time lost to coasting with higher power numbers (or simply a lower RPE) outside.
My latest outdoor ride was 2:45 with 21min coasting and an IF of 0.90. To be fair, I’m better outdoors with only about half my riding in the last two months being inside, but that IF, and I’d even argue the training load at a different IF, would be totally unmanageable inside. I wasn’t particularly tired after, and my next TrainerRoad workout was Baird the next day, which went great.
My understanding of the wingate test is that there is no pacing - so it’s as hard as you can go at every point in the test. This is what makes it so hard - you go super deep anaerobically in the first 10-15 seconds, and then have to keep going for the remainder of the test in massive oxygen debt (the test I did was 60 seconds). So a steady effort at 200% wouldn’t be the same as a true wingate test?
Yeah, I agree. Part of the charm of the Wingate test is you start out in a high cadence sprint and wind up in a low cadence grind. So definitely not he same. Just approximately the same work.
I haven’t tried it but I suspect 200% 30s intervals would feel ‘easier’. Doing multiple Wingate tests is just really hard. Walking into those workouts is like picking which finger you’re going to clip off with garden shears.
That makes much more sense! Thanks for clarifying.
I’ve also looked back and I’m closer to 1/3rd indoor than 1/2. Have you found you can do near to 100% power, personally, on the trainer as what you can do outside? I’m at least 5% higher outside across all durations, but I’ve been in SSB to prep for a triathlon following into road race base season and I’ve definitely progressed on the muscular endurance for both.
I think I am close to the same, but probably not 100%. Maybe 95-98% depending on the day. I am have worked hard on my cooling and airflow to make sweating and heat buildup essentially a non-issue for my training room.
Even on my hardest workouts, I rarely have more than 5 drops of sweat reach the floor. I am a profuse sweater outside, and strive to make my airflow and cooling prevent any sweat drops inside. So I think I have that part nailed. I also use Zwift for distraction and motivation, but I think I can still pull a bit harder in real world situations.
For reference, based on your comment about hard rides inside, I did a very challenging Zwift ride/race.
Come on, guys…you’re giving our demographic a bad name!
I’m older than both of you(!!!) and I still get a kick out of Vmax sessions!
Do NOT go gentle into that good night…of VO2max intervals!
Similar to the original Koichi/Tabata protocol: 8x20/10 @200% FTP (4x/week for 6 weeks).
The original test subjects, world-class speed skaters, found it very hard with some failing around interval #7.
Interestingly, Dr. Tabata found that 30s/2min @ 200% VO2 was not as effective as the 20/10 protocol at taxing the aerobic and anaerobic systems (+28% anaerobic, +15% VO2max).
So for all TR riders who find 1 low-% VO2max session per week a challenge…it could be worse – a LOT worse!
I love it. I am hoping to actually grow my VO2 Max by using these slightly lower levels as a stepping stone. I think that making it through those will give better results than failing at the 120%. But that’s a guess and a hope from me