# More Zwift Layoffs, Co-CEO resigns **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [February 5, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696 "2024-02-05T23:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/83 "2024-02-08T18:18:00Z")
Just speculating, but exporting the workout to zwift means I’ll have the file. If I have the file, I can save it for future references and share it, and just copy a full plan at some point. We know that TR cares about their workouts. I wouldn’t bother doing this, but some yes. That’s the only reason I can see. And I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Jolyzara](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jolyzara/32/97333_2.png) [@Jolyzara](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jolyzara)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/84 "2024-02-08T18:23:37Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > > [@patricksudol](#): > > > > As a software engineer I can assure you that is not remotely true. > > > > Maintaining software with actual users on it costs money (engineers, product managers, QA, customer service, servers, third party applications, etc) and that’s before you even consider new features and bug squashing. > > > > SaaS is an expensive service for a reason. You need a lot of skilled people to make it run and the infrastructure to keep the lights on is not cheap. > > I appreciate the comment! Now…how much are we talking to manage something like Zwift? They could easily have 1 1/2 million $ coming in per month (with 100,000 subscribers), maybe multiple times that much. Like a team of 20 or a team of 200 or maybe 2,000? What’s your best guess? > > Joe 1.5 million per month is absolutely nothing. Rent, utilities, servers, salaries, benefits, taxes… not to mention just the normal costs of running a business. It adds up. ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/86 "2024-02-08T18:29:53Z")
> [@AlexMartins](#): > > Just speculating, but exporting the workout to zwift means I’ll have the file. If I have the file, I can save it for future references and share it, and just copy a full plan at some point. We know that TR cares about their workouts. > > I wouldn’t bother doing this, but some yes. That’s the only reason I can see. And I understand. Per the update below, TR is OK with the duplication within the guidelines given. This includes using Zwift’s workout option as well as other apps. > [@Exporting workouts to cyclemeter](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/exporting-workouts-to-cyclemeter/43225/16): > > Update! Nate and the team clarified, you can recreate the workouts, only if it’s for personal use and as long as you’re a paying subscriber with TrainerRoad. What isn’t okay is to share this workouts with others, and thats what the Terms & Conditions are meant to address. Sorry for misdirecting you all there! I for sure should have checked with the team first for clarification, that verbiage just seemed so clear! laughing Feel free to follow up with any questions or if you need us to expand … ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:33pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/87 "2024-02-08T18:33:51Z")
TR has 4519 workouts. It’s gonna take a while to copy. ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/88 "2024-02-08T18:35:19Z")
There’s ways to automate that… which has been done more than once from what I’ve seen over the years. Not recommended, possibly illegal and at the very least unethical, but it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![jpolchlopek](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jpolchlopek/32/11082_2.png) [@jpolchlopek](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/jpolchlopek)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/90 "2024-02-08T18:36:25Z")
Tell me about it. With Progression Levels, I end up having to build out a new workout, pretty frequently, depending on what level I’m at, what energy system I’m working on, and how I’m feeling. I really wish there was better integration, because the site I’m using to copy them over reaaaaallly leaves a lot to be desired. ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/91 "2024-02-08T18:36:55Z")
> [@mcneese.chad](#): > > There’s ways to automate that… which has been done more than once from what I’ve seen over the years. Not recommended, possibly illegal and at the very least unethical, but it’s possible. Totally. I’m just saying one person copying over their one plan doesn’t even scratch the surface. I just don’t think TR’s value in today’s world is in the content of the workouts. ---
**Author:** ![wik04](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/wik04/32/169940_2.png) [@wik04](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/wik04)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/92 "2024-02-08T18:37:41Z")
Totally. SYSTM (the old Sufferfest) has some good training, but the system doesn’t work very well. I tried it this year after a year away and I could not get through rides without errors popping up and tons of trainer dropouts. Meanwhile, I have no problems on TR or Zwift with these things. So if Zwift handled the interface that they do well and Wahoo gave them real training plans, the mix could be good. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/94 "2024-02-08T18:52:51Z")
Just quote me in full to avoid misinterpretations. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/95 "2024-02-08T18:55:59Z")
I fail to see the need to do so here, since the essence of my reply to the quoted section is that basic duplication (within their guideline) is actually fine now compared to the limits per the ToC referenced in the past. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/96 "2024-02-08T19:00:44Z")
If you say so ok. Only because by reading the quote can mislead someone to interpret that I COULD DO THAT. While I was clear to say that I wouldn’t, and I went even farther agreeing with TR’s reasons, if that was the case. ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/97 "2024-02-08T19:02:45Z")
> [@Junk\_Miles](#): > > Yea but a lot are almost identical, or at the very least so similar that there isn’t any real difference. To be honest, it’s not that hard to make up custom workouts for specific blocks. Something like ZWO factory you can create a workout and download the file and make changes pretty quickly to increase interval times. It took maybe 5-10 minutes to make up 40 or so sweetspot workouts. And just take those workouts and increase intensity and now you have the same for Threshold. I have a library of probably 125-150 workouts in ZWO files for SweetSpot, Threshold, VO2, and O/Us. Absolutely, and this is what I do too, but this doesn’t have anything to do with TR not sharing their proprietary workouts with Zwift, which is the whole point I’m making. There is no secret sauce in the workouts. 4x8, 4x10, 5x8, 5x10, etc. is just a workout. Anyone can create those themselves, or buy/copy them from someone else. The value in TR is in the prescribing of a specific workout on a specific day based on your current performance, level, etc. You can’t copy that, even if you have all 4519 (or you can, but you need your own AI engine), so I don’t see what the issue is with TR just sharing the WOD with Zwift or TP or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/98 "2024-02-08T19:02:57Z")
Edited above per your preference. ---
**Author:** ![KonaSS](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/konass/32/7725_2.png) [@KonaSS](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/KonaSS)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/99 "2024-02-08T19:18:24Z")
> [@FergusYL](#): > > For better or worse, Zwift is exclusively my indoor workout front end. I occasionally do free rides and such, but 90+% of the time I’m doing a workout that’s coming from an external plan piped in through the TrainingPeaks integration. Can you or someone else explain to me what the benefit of doing this is? If you are doing a workout, erg mode is still controlling the resistance, right? You are not necessarily reacting to the hills or whatever there are in Zwift. Is it just the benefit of having something to look at? Back story is I try Zwift about once per year, usually when snow is covering the ground and I am not going to be able to get outside for over a week. I usually give it one race and and/or a group ride and generally decide that Zwift does nothing for me. I think the graphics suck and are uninspiring. The screen and all the stuff is too busy and I don’t know what the hell it is. I have come to the conclusion that I am not a Zwift person. But 98% of my trainer time is structured workouts, so if I am missing some functionality here, would love to know. ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/102 "2024-02-08T19:29:27Z")
> [@KonaSS](#): > > Is it just the benefit of having something to look at? - That is what it usually is for me and comprises probably 80-90% of my time training with Z & TR. - On top of that, the reality of having literally thousands of people on course leads to having “rabbits” to chase as something of a silly motivation during the work intervals. I do branch out and sometimes do pure group rides or pacer bot rides in place of my Endurance workout. ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/103 "2024-02-08T19:35:17Z")
I’m another who uses it for distraction. I also like the workout player, where you can see the whole workout on screen and know what’s coming next. I don’t use it year round, I just buy a month or two when I get bored and need a break from blue lines. I also find the idea of leveling up, completing challenges, collecting badges for riding new routes, etc. motivating. If I want to quit an interval, I might even try a little harder to push through in order to earn the points for completing the interval. Like someone else said though, what motivates one doesn’t necessarily motivate another. There is no “right answer” when it comes to training tools, music, tv shows, etc. Just find what you like and roll with it! ---
**Author:** ![KonaSS](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/konass/32/7725_2.png) [@KonaSS](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/KonaSS)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/104 "2024-02-08T20:53:15Z")
Thanks all for the info. Confirmed Zwift does nothing for me and I will cancel before my free trial is up. I would rather watch a Youtube video or stream something. I don’t know, I was never much into video games either. Maybe it is the same sort thing. ---
**Author:** ![ACree](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/acree/32/92159_2.png) [@ACree](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ACree)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/106 "2024-02-08T21:31:18Z")
Zwift should offer a way to be a workout player without saving the .zwo file. If people could use zwift to do their TR workouts without any fuss, there would be less incentive to recreate them. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/107 "2024-02-08T21:44:56Z")
I had a very similar opinion as yours, but recently a few things changed and I’d say that I see Zwfit now as part of my training. I’ll point them out, and suggest some things that might change your view. - If you press “H” you hide all information and have only the “world”. - Do not use ERG mode, try to just achieve the workout by yourself. - I recently changed a Direct Drive trainer for a dumb set of rollers, and it was a game changer for riding indoor and Zwift. Riding now is engaging as I have to really ride, and I’m not “locked” in a trainer. - I have a group ride with friends that is really awesome. KOMS, getting dropped, jokes, etc. - I can’t ride outside for almost 4 months - live in Canada, and even though 60% of my training is on a fatbike now, I need to be creative to overcome winter. - robopacers and group rides for long endurance rides work well. ---
**Author:** ![AJS914](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@AJS914](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AJS914)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/108 "2024-02-08T21:51:39Z")
Does anyone like just riding around in Zwift and letting the terrain and trainer control the resistance? I’m curious - can you join a party and chat in zwift? I recall that people used to use some kind of 3rd party software for voice chat. Do they still? [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696.md?page=4) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696.md?page=6)