# More Zwift Layoffs, Co-CEO resigns **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [February 5, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696 "2024-02-05T23:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![chriswinterhack](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chriswinterhack/32/130293_2.png) [@chriswinterhack](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chriswinterhack)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/63 "2024-02-08T13:24:49Z")
I enjoy Zwift when I use it but I dropped my subscription awhile back because even a low volume Trainerroad plan paired with group rides left me using Zwift once or twice a month max. One of the ways they could increase subscribers would be to take their workouts/training plans more seriously. In my opinion there is no way they could compete with what Trainerroad has already built. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/64 "2024-02-08T13:42:40Z")
They refreshed it recently. The workouts are better organized, although the training plans are still the same - mostly I think. I think Zwfit lacks a calendar, but I don’t see it as a training platform such as TR, and I don’t see them going toward this path. ---
**Author:** ![Power13](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/power13/32/92171_2.png) [@Power13](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Power13)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:58pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/65 "2024-02-08T13:58:41Z")
> [@AlexMartins](#): > > but I don’t see it as a training platform such as TR, and I don’t see them going toward this path IIRC, something like 50% of the users do workouts on Zwift….so their continued lack of focus on this area always amazes me. There are reportedly a LOT of Zwift employees who do the TR / Zwift combo that many of us do….run TR for the workout and Zwift for the visual engagement. ---
**Author:** ![jcolp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jcolp/32/146093_2.png) [@jcolp](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/jcolp)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:02pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/66 "2024-02-08T14:02:41Z")
Workouts (from TrainingPeaks) are 99% of what I use Zwift for. Just spending time on improving the workout interface would be nice, alas. ---
**Author:** ![Power13](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/power13/32/92171_2.png) [@Power13](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Power13)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:04pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/67 "2024-02-08T14:04:11Z")
> [@jcolp](#): > > Workouts (from TrainingPeaks) are 99% of what I use Zwift for That is a good point…I wonder how many of the ~50% of people on Zwift doing workouts are doing Zwift workouts vs. workouts imported from TP? ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/68 "2024-02-08T14:05:56Z")
I haven’t tried Zwift workouts in a LONG time, but at that time the problem was twofold. First, the plans were random with all kinds of different workouts/intervals pasted together. It felt like it severely lacked specificity. Second, the calendar wasn’t configurable. You HAD to do workout #1 on the day it scheduled it and you HAD to do it in the order they prescribed. I think simply hiring a professional coach to remove all the noise in the workouts and make them something you could tape to the top tube, and making the calendar editable would go a long way. I don’t think they have to compete with the smarts or endless alternates of TR. They just need to compete with cheap plans on TrainingPeaks. ---
**Author:** ![TooManyDogs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/toomanydogs/32/98121_2.png) [@TooManyDogs](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/TooManyDogs)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:09pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/69 "2024-02-08T14:09:31Z")
> [@Pbase](#): > > I think simply hiring a professional coach to remove all the noise in the workouts and make them something you could tape to the top tube In the past, they’ve justified the “scatterbrained” workouts saying it’s meant to keep users engaged. On rare occasion I’ve gone on Zwift to do a workout from their library and have a harder time finding a workout that’s “simple”. Many times they’re just all over the place. They’re not all like that but a lot are. ---
**Author:** ![jcolp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jcolp/32/146093_2.png) [@jcolp](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/jcolp)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:11pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/70 "2024-02-08T14:11:55Z")
Disclaimer: I like Wahoo, but don’t work for them. 😛 With this partnership and friendship between Wahoo and Zwift, if I were Zwift I would see if Wahoo could lend a hand in the workouts area - be it helping to clean up, or licensing from Wahoo. ---
**Author:** ![kevistraining](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/kevistraining/32/171237_2.png) [@kevistraining](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/kevistraining)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/71 "2024-02-08T14:15:14Z")
I feel like the Zwift/TR partnership was pretty close to happening based on those surveys they sent out… So I could see Zwift thinking that a Zwift/Systm partnership could work. ---
**Author:** ![Helvellyn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/helvellyn/32/95205_2.png) [@Helvellyn](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Helvellyn)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/72 "2024-02-08T14:16:15Z")
> [@Pbase](#): > > Second, the calendar wasn’t configurable. You HAD to do workout #1 on the day it scheduled it and you HAD to do it in the order they prescribed. They’ve gone completely in the other direction now. If you do a training plan you can complete the workouts in whatever order you like and with take as many (or as few) weeks as you feel like. FWIW I throw intervals.icu a few beer vouchers in return for using their stuff. Their workout builder is great. Their calendar is great. Their analysis and tracking stuff is great. 🕶 Create a workout, then either drop it where Zwift can see it on my PC if I want to ride in workout mode, or upload it to (free!) Jepster on my phone and use that as a bike computer and free ride on Zwift feeling the terrain. Depends how I’m feeling. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:19pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/73 "2024-02-08T14:19:27Z")
As others said, I don’t think this 50% are doing Zwift workouts. I strongly believe that they are doing “outside sources” workouts such as TP, Join, coaches, etc. Zwift employees doing TR workout means nothing. Are they the bulk of their customer? I doubt it. The lack of interest in refining the workout flow and use is pretty clear, and it suggests that the majority of users are happy with that. Don’t forget, I believe we are a very small minority. And by the lack of interest in refining I mean the lack of average power in workouts, a lap button, etc. PS. I know you can implement average power for intervals, but it’s a bit trick and requires some work that not all people want to do. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/74 "2024-02-08T14:22:12Z")
Perfect! That’s what I do as well. Intervals is such a great platform. Cheers to @davidtinker Endurance rides: Roboparcer or those 100k rides avg 2.5/3w/kg ---
**Author:** ![TheHunted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@TheHunted](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/TheHunted)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/75 "2024-02-08T14:22:14Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > I appreciate the comment! Now…how much are we talking to manage something like Zwift? They could easily have 1 1/2 million $ coming in per month (with 100,000 subscribers), maybe multiple times that much. Like a team of 20 or a team of 200 or maybe 2,000? What’s your best guess? People I know (myself included) use Zwift as the Workout player for Training Peaks / Trainerday, it’s a long long time that I have done a Zwift workout ---
**Author:** ![Power13](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/power13/32/92171_2.png) [@Power13](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Power13)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/76 "2024-02-08T14:53:49Z")
> [@AlexMartins](#): > > Zwift employees doing TR workout means nothing. Are they the bulk of their customer? I doubt it I don’t believe I ever made this claim…I just noted that their own employees don’t use the training plans that their company offers. If I were running a business, and my employees were using a competitive product because it was better, I would be concerned. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 3:02pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/77 "2024-02-08T15:02:19Z")
I got your point, I just think otherwise. Don’t see that much of an issue, because they aren’t competitors, in my opinion. TR sells training plans, and Zwfit sells a cycling platform that mimics reality, for me they are way far apart from each other, somehow connected. Wierd, I know. ---
**Author:** ![FergusYL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/fergusyl/32/80824_2.png) [@FergusYL](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/FergusYL)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/78 "2024-02-08T15:53:39Z")
This is my perspective, too. For better or worse, Zwift is exclusively my indoor workout front end. I occasionally do free rides and such, but 90+% of the time I’m doing a workout that’s coming from an external plan piped in through the TrainingPeaks integration. Be it JOIN, FasCat Optimize, Athletica.ai, or whatever I’m tinkering with at the moment, it’s a very simple, reliable solution. This is also my baseline for why I think TR should integrate with Zwift. Sure, it’s possible and perfectly common to run them both side-by-side, but I want as few barriers between me and a workout as possible, let alone having to fiddle with something at 5am when I’m just starting on my coffee. ---
**Author:** ![AlexMartins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlexMartins](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AlexMartins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/79 "2024-02-08T15:59:02Z")
Yep. I think they have more to gain than to lose by integrating themselves. Also, I don’t see people dropping TR or Zwfit subscriptions due to this integration. But, there might be a few reasons behind the scenes. TR looks very “strict” about its technologies. ---
**Author:** ![Power13](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/power13/32/92171_2.png) [@Power13](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Power13)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/80 "2024-02-08T17:14:02Z")
> [@FergusYL](#): > > but 90+% of the time I’m doing a workout that’s coming from an external plan piped in through the TrainingPeaks integration. Yup…as noted above, the question is what % of the workout users are doing this? Just anecdotally, I see a lot more “Joe Blow just completed _name of Zwift workout_” pop up on my screen than “Joe Blow just completed a custom workout”. But again, this is anecdotal. My overall point is that ~50% of your users are reportedly doing workouts on your platform. Why give them the excuse to go anywhere else except YOUR platform? If I am doing a TP, Today’s Plan or a custom plan from a coach, I can do it on Rouvy, IndiVelo or any other platform. If you can give them plans that are on-par or better than those they are doing form an external source, this is a no-brainer to keep your customer happy and engaged. “Jeez, why am I buying these plans from TP when I can get a great plan right here on Zwift included in my subscription?” Or better yet, add in a small premium for access to Certified Coaching Plans and boost revenue. Still less than paying for external plans and all in one convenient package…no need to import plans, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/81 "2024-02-08T18:00:14Z")
I was really hoping this was where the TR/Z thing was going. I’m sure Nate had good reasons not to, but it sure would have improved Zwift. ---
**Author:** ![sasa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/sasa/32/22910_2.png) [@sasa](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/sasa)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696/82 "2024-02-08T18:05:57Z")
I’d argue and say it would have benefited TR more than Zwift. Why? Because TP already integrates quite well with Zwift. [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696.md?page=3) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/more-zwift-layoffs-co-ceo-resigns/90696.md?page=5)