# Max-Effort Training, Hot Takes, and More - Ask a Cycling Coach 407 **URL:** \ **Category:** Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast\ **Created:** [March 16, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046 "2023-03-16T18:19:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MaxinePhilavong](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/maxinephilavong/32/115724_2.png) [@MaxinePhilavong](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/MaxinePhilavong)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/1 "2023-03-16T18:19:39Z")
We’ve got hot takes this episode! Join us! [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/0/d/0dab83605ebdc1b982fb43742c9a4c3a945b6f94.jpeg "Max-Effort Training, Hot Takes, and More - Ask a Cycling Coach 407") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrcz-dT-VDg) Share the podcast with your friends, and rate it 5-stars! iTunes: [Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast - Presented by TrainerRoad - Podcast - Apple Podcasts](https://trainerroad.cc/apple2) Spotify: [Spotify – Web Player](https://trainerroad.cc/spotify2) Google Podcasts: [Google Podcasts is no longer available](https://trainerroad.cc/google) TOPICS COVERED IN THIS EPISODE: (4:03) Hot Takes: Shaving one’s legs is the worst tradition in cycling (18:25) When should you go harder than your workout? (30:28) Hot Takes: Kids snack food is the best for long rides (43:29) Does Adaptive Training give you credit for extra training? (47:16) Hot Takes: Shoe fit is just as important as bike fit (1:02:02) How to get faster without a training plan (1:15:08) Hot Takes: Racing when its cold is harder than racing when its hot Watch our latest Cycling Science Explained video now! [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/0/8/08cee1a2504c552b9ce256284c9afb48646207b7.jpeg "Does Altitude Training Make You Slower? | Cycling Science Explained") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3IIJqNxNMo) Subscribe to the Science of Getting Faster Podcast below! Spotify: [Spotify](https://trainerroad.cc/spotifysogf) iTunes: [Science of Getting Faster Podcast - Presented by TrainerRoad - Podcast - Apple Podcasts](https://trainerroad.cc/itunessogf) TRY TRAINERROAD RISK FREE FOR 30 DAYS! TrainerRoad is the #1 cycling training app. No other cycling app is more effective. Over 13,000 positive reviews, a 4.9 star App Store rating. Adaptive Training from TrainerRoad uses machine learning and science-based coaching principles to continually assess your performance and intelligently adjust your training plan. It trains you as an individual and makes you a faster cyclist. Learn more about TrainerRoad: [Cycling Planning, Training, & Analytics - TrainerRoad](https://trainerroad.cc/3LBb5Ur) Learn more about Adaptive Training: [Adaptive Training: The Right Workout. Every Time. - TrainerRoad](https://trainerroad.cc/35Tqtea) ABOUT THE ASK A CYCLING COACH PODCAST Ask a Cycling Coach podcast is a cycling and triathlon training podcast. Each week USAC/USAT Level I certified coach Chad Timmerman, pro athletes, and other special guests answer your cycling and triathlon questions. Have a question for the podcast? Ask here: [Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast - TrainerRoad](https://trainerroad.cc/3HTFXNi) MORE PODCASTS FROM TRAINERROAD Listen to the Successful Athletes Podcast: [Successful Athletes Podcast - TrainerRoad](https://trainerroad.cc/3JmKrN5) Listen to the Science of Getting Faster Podcast: [The Science of Getting Faster Podcast - TrainerRoad](https://trainerroad.cc/3LpuIhP) STAY IN TOUCH Training Blog: [TrainerRoad Blog - Cycling Training Resources and Tips](https://trainerroad.cc/3gCdNdN) TrainerRoad Forum: [TrainerRoad - Cycling & Training Forum](https://trainerroad.cc/3uHvLnE) Instagram: [https://www.instagram.com/trainerroad/](https://www.instagram.com/trainerroad/) Strava Club: [https://www.strava.com/clubs/trainerroad](https://www.strava.com/clubs/trainerroad) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/TrainerRd](https://www.facebook.com/TrainerRd) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/TrainerRoad](https://twitter.com/TrainerRoad) #### TrainerRoad Podcast Network [Submit your Question to the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast](https://www.trainerroad.com/podcast) [Subscribe to the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast](https://www.trainerroad.com/podcast) [Subscribe to the Successful Athletes Podcast](https://www.trainerroad.com/successful-athletes-podcast) [Submit your story to the Successful Athletes Podcast](https://www.trainerroad.com/successful-athletes-podcast) [Subscribe to the Science of Getting Faster Podcast](https://www.trainerroad.com/sogf) [Submit a topic to the Science of Getting Faster Podcast](https://www.trainerroad.com/sogf) ---
**Author:** ![webdev511](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/webdev511/32/135558_2.png) [@webdev511](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/webdev511)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/2 "2023-03-16T18:32:13Z")
The look on @IvyAudrain 's face when Chad said it was “okay” to wear bibs more than once between washes. 🤣 (Sorry Ivy, that was rough) Women know better and guys think that they can get away with it. No we cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Jack75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@Jack75](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jack75)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/3 "2023-03-16T18:53:40Z")
I don’t get the big deal particularly during indoor training season. Every episode all these tips to get faster. Want my tip? Don’t do laundry everyday. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![mailman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mailman/32/101794_2.png) [@mailman](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mailman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/4 "2023-03-16T18:58:19Z")
🤮 Wash your bibs/shorts. Especially indoors 😬. The saddle sores! _ **Fizzing for the Cape Epic coverage** _ Are you going to do any post stage check ins @Jonathan ? Also, another teaser for Jonathan’s bike without any confirmation. Is it an S Works? Does it have 120mm flight attendant? Is it shredly? Or, have you not been able to get one yet? ---
**Author:** ![HLaB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hlab/32/60448_2.png) [@HLaB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/HLaB)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/5 "2023-03-16T21:06:57Z")
When Jonathan repeats what he has said many times about rating workouts should be copied out (circa 25mins&45 mins) and made a ‘sticky’ in this forum 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/6 "2023-03-16T21:30:07Z")
There is a reason they have it near the top of [their official support article](https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404884465563-Post-Workout-Surveys): - ## How Should I Answer Surveys? - Don’t overthink it. Consider the overall difficulty of the ride and not how you expected it to feel. And I have it on top of [my own expanded chart](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zlymgRdCmi1gddd8SLqeGj3Z5mqhQKg4jQ0OzwrmjcM/edit?usp=sharing): - ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/f/a/fa1ad062828c67c6936d6b7507419ed04ebc1d89.png) But like any good TrainerRoadie… many of us look beyond the KISS principle 😛 ---
**Author:** ![toribath](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/toribath/32/34696_2.png) [@toribath](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/toribath)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 7:06pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/7 "2023-03-17T19:06:56Z")
last accident I got into I pretty much totalled my shoes, and while I was waiting for the driver’s insurance to come through and pay for a sweet replacement I borrowed a pair from my mum. We’re usually pretty identical on size, but they were ever so fractionally too narrow in the toes and holy hell if I didn’t know about it after a couple of hours. Genuinely some of the most unpleasant k’s of my life. tl;dr: you probably cannot get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Simo429](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/simo429/32/1784_2.png) [@Simo429](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Simo429)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2023, 10:14am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/8 "2023-03-18T10:14:34Z")
@Jonathan seems like such a chilled bloke unless he’s on the start line at a bike race, but he also gave me The vibes of ‘don’t talk to him while he’s doing the big shop’ this week. You’d be in the supermarket see him getting some ridiculously green bananas and say hi and get a hard stare and a curt nod as he’s in the zone. ---
**Author:** ![GoLongThenGoHome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@GoLongThenGoHome](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/GoLongThenGoHome)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2023, 10:34am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/9 "2023-03-18T10:34:05Z")
> [@Simo429](#): > > You’d be in the supermarket see him getting some ridiculously green bananas and say hi and get a hard stare and a curt nod as he’s in the zone. Everyone needs their privacy and down time. ---
**Author:** ![foldingbikebass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/foldingbikebass/32/101743_2.png) [@foldingbikebass](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/foldingbikebass)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 12:48pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/10 "2023-03-19T12:48:58Z")
I’m not sure this really matters, but I’m not convinced the calorie counting was quite right in the Salami sandwich vs Choc chip Clif bar. I dumped @IvyAudrain’s macro count into a spreddie. %s are by calories. | | 4 | 9 | 4 | | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | | protein | fat | carbs | calories | | Salami sandwich | 13 | 8 | 20.5 | 206 | | Choc chip clif bar | 10 | 6 | 43 | 266 | | | | | | | | | 25% | 35% | 40% | | | | 15% | 20% | 65% | | ---
**Author:** ![UWDawgs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/uwdawgs/32/122851_2.png) [@UWDawgs](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/UWDawgs)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/11 "2023-03-20T04:23:17Z")
When Jonathan said shaved legs are worth 15 watts what did he mean? I’m not a leg shaver. If I shaved my legs tomorrow would I add 15 watts to my FTP? That would be substantial. Or would it save me 15 watts of work over an hour? That would be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Helvellyn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/helvellyn/32/95205_2.png) [@Helvellyn](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Helvellyn)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:34am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/12 "2023-03-20T06:34:09Z")
> [@UWDawgs](#): > > Or would it save me 15 watts of work over an hour Kilojoules = amount of work (energy expended) Watts = workrate (energy expended per unit time) The 15 watts are the _savings_ due to improved aerodynamics. Effectively … “I’d need to be producing 15 more watts to maintain this speed if my legs were hairy” ---
**Author:** ![FrankTuna](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/franktuna/32/135629_2.png) [@FrankTuna](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/FrankTuna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 11:40am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/13 "2023-03-20T11:40:46Z")
Thats also based on some Specialized testing. They also reference the “Chewbacca” scale, so if you have more/dense hair you’ll see a bigger benefit. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/b/4/b432641e204bd4c3344ed359ed72e6707eb76029.jpeg "The Win Tunnel: Shaved and Dangerous?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZnrE17Jg3I) ---
**Author:** ![HLaB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hlab/32/60448_2.png) [@HLaB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/HLaB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 11:49am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/14 "2023-03-20T11:49:49Z")
Ive never shaved before but looking at that and the Swissside vid and other sites I think I’ll give it ago this year. My best TT where I was comfortably faster was an early season 25 miles (40km TT) when my hairy legs were covered up. I’m probably an 8 on the Chewbacca scale 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Helvellyn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/helvellyn/32/95205_2.png) [@Helvellyn](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Helvellyn)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 12:46pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/15 "2023-03-20T12:46:10Z")
Just one more advantage of my Don’t Own A Bike And Never Ride Outdoors Policy. My legs can remain as Mother Nature intended. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Jolyzara](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jolyzara/32/97333_2.png) [@Jolyzara](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jolyzara)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 5:43am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/16 "2023-03-21T05:43:50Z")
So many questions: How about real world riding though… tail wind, side wind, headwind… all at varying wind speeds. What about on the bike when you are fast going down & slow speeds during tough climbs, does it calculate varying speeds? Is it an “average” of real world riding or straight headwind at a certain speed? In a wind tunnel? ---
**Author:** ![CaptainThunderpants](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/captainthunderpants/32/133391_2.png) [@CaptainThunderpants](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/CaptainThunderpants)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 10:09am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/17 "2023-03-27T10:09:34Z")
100% agree with @Jonathan about caffeine and soda. Pepsi and Coke taste the same. Original Maurten is tasty but the caffeine version is downright horrendous, almost gag worthy. ---
**Author:** ![webdev511](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/webdev511/32/135558_2.png) [@webdev511](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/webdev511)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/max-effort-training-hot-takes-and-more-ask-a-cycling-coach-407/82046/18 "2023-03-27T15:02:52Z")
> [@CaptainThunderpants](#): > > Maurten is tasty but the caffeine version is downright horrendous, almost gag worthy. It tastes like Chemical warfare in my mouth. Not a fan. Clif gels with the same amount of caffeine have a bit of the same taste, but not nearly as bad.