New BF uses a 1:0.8 ratio as opposed to 2:1, citing improvement in GI tolerance. Is there anything to back this up? Is 2:1 still best? @Dr_Alex_Harrison
Shared this before, but sharing again in answer to your question. It’s actually the main reason I got on this forum because I was fuming with keyboard warrior level sport scientist rage about all the promotion of 2:1 all over the internet. LOL
1:1 Glucose:Fructose Ratio Works better than 2:1.
2:1 was never best. The whole world just thought so. The ratio was created by a couple prominent studies that became dogmatic. “Best” is variable, and probably lies in most cases between 2.0:1.0 and 0.9:1.0.
1:0.8 is great.
So in simple terms your saying something like 50grams of the Gatorade mix and 40 grams of maltodextrin is a better ratio to use?
I know this might seem like a dumb question but making sure I’m following you is all
I ended up ordering a 12lb bag of the carbo gain
If Gatorade is 2:1 glucose:fructose, then adding maltodextrin to it is a bad idea.
If Gatorade is 1:1 glucose:fructose, then adding maltodextrin to it up to a 1:1 ratio of maltodextrin:Gatorade is as high as you should consider going for maltodextrin addition.
We have no way of knowing for sure the sugar composition of Gatorade. I suspect it’s closer to 1:1 based on some info out of Australia, but it’s pretty unreliable info by any standards (possible typos in the screenshot).
If you’re adding anything to Gatorade, it should probably be sugar rather than maltodextrin. Or a bit of both.
The goal shouldn’t be to move towards more glucose, but probably more towards a 1:1 ratio of glucose:fructose.
Matt Hanson told me he doesn’t use fructose until the run so it’s straight malto 500cal/hr on the bike.
Kinda blew my mind
Add that to the list of strong evidence that the ceiling for carb ingestion rates during submax exercise might be way higher than oft reported.
Ok…. I’m already doing the gator aid thing. I like the taste and it’s reasonably cheap. But have also done custom malt:fruc with a Nuun tablet.
For cheapness, and fun, and because everyone wants to be part of the drink thread… going all in.
I get the sugar part by weight per unit volume.
What is the g/ml for sodium citrate? Or other measure such as teaspoon and I’ll just weigh it out on my scale.
Am not pushing max carbs per bottle, but like being able to vary the mix depending on the ride. Most of my rides are 1-3 hours and using Alex’s table works well.
1 level Teaspoon of Anthony’s Premium Sodium Citrate is 5.5 grams on my cheap kitchen scale. That’s close to what the bag says a teaspoon should yield (5 grams).
1 tsp is roughly 1000mg from what I gather.
I wrote this down a while ago, but I wanted to mimic the sodium per 100cal in tailwind.
19:1 ratio by powder weight it what I found for carbs and sodium citrate
I will be trying to make my own Beta Fuel. I enjoy using it for races in 2+ hours, or ones that are exceptionally hard and fast (think criteriums or XCO). Will be doing the math on parts and expense. Will report once I try it in training..
I’m getting down 150-200g of sugar in the first 2 hours of my 4ish hour Saturday rides and it’s a great way to be in good shape by the usual break at 1/2 way. But now I’m all crazy to get a continuous glucose monitor. Has anybody done that? How high does your blood glucose level get?
This question seems at least tangentially related to this thread.
I’ve been making my own drink mix with great success, but I want to separate my hydration and carb intake. I bought some little flask containers, and created a gel with my drink mix(w/ salt), water, and xantham gum. The consistency is very close to SiS. I put the gel in my flask, in my jersey, and my bottles are just water.
But… why did I thicken the gel? Why not just carry the carb mix in the flask? GU and SiS use xantham or pectin and have this gel like consistency. So I tried to do it too. Is there any reason behind the gel consistency other than mouth feel? Should I be able to get more carbs into the liquid if I use a gelling agent?
If you want to get a thicker solution add some fruit pectin or gelatin.as you are saying that will help with the viscosity. I would try and make a couple batches to get the consistency you’re shooting for before trying it on the road. I don’t think you’ll get more carbs in whatever volume you’re trying to achieve. You’ll be adding some type of thickener to this liquid which will actually take away from the volume. Being that it’s most likely a powder of some sort.
I don’t know what type of flask you’re using but I use these reusable baby food flasks. They are super easy to fill and clean out, find them on Amazon or some supermarkets will have them.
If you’re using simple sugar or some other lower cost sugar like maple syrup or honey. Always try the recipe and write everything down you used. Down to the gram not ounce.
Could someone more knowledgeable look at the report fructose in the diet and comment how the conclusions apply to endurance athletes using fructose mix drink while exercising? I was going to contact the leading author but then again it might be best to leave him working
From what I gather the small intestine adapts to higher fructose use by having more GLUT5. If the fructose consumption still exceeds the GLUT5 capacity the fructose might spill straight into the blood stream or move in to the colon where the effect there is described in the article. Should I be worried when using fructose mix on the bike?
No. Well, maybe and stability of the solution. Not sure there. If you’re making the gel/solution within 24-hrs of using, I wouldn’t add anything but the sugar, sodium, & sufficient water to get it dissolved.
If anything, the xantham gum will make it marginally less optimal. Likely negligible consideration either way.
Yep! Sounds like the intestine is highly adaptable to increased fructose intake. Huge advantage for endurance performance.
High fructose consumption, makes you faster at absorbing it. Cool! Maybe!??
What it means for you:
- In a sedentary person or in a person with kcal balance / weight issues, this poses potential further satiety and adiposity problems. Potentially disastrous addition to liver fat accumulation.
- In an exercising person who also desires body fat loss, has daily satiety issues, consuming in high fructose doses primarily during exercise, this poses probably negligible satiety issues increase, and offers performance enhancement. Probably very limited effect on liver fat accumulation.
- In the same person as above, but who also consumes very large boluses of fructose regularly outside of training (not advisable to slam sugar >15min before or >1hr after), this fructose adaptive process could increase fat deposits in liver and propensity for adiposity in general.
- In a person seeking endurance performance, and without substantial daily satiety or body composition issues, or for someone for whom fructose is not ingested in large boluses virtually any time outside of training, this is a huge benefit to gut tolerance during exercise, and will have negligible, if any, effect on satiety. No liver adiposity concerns.
For heavier alcohol drinkers (ie. 14 beverages per week or more), this may be reason to consume slightly less sugar during training, since you’ve already got one factor working towards fatty liver disease.
Additional discussion of some of the claims, and mechanisms:
They speak of spillover and leakiness. I read the articles cited to make those claims as well. “Leaky” is a bit of a misleading term. Fructose isn’t leaking. Leaking implies pathology, IMHO. Fructose undergoes catabolism in the small intestine first and foremost, and when the pathways are saturated via large fructose bolus, mRNA activity related to GLUT5 (a fructose transporter) is increased.
Basically, when the gut can’t keep up with the needed breakdown of ingested fructose, it adapts by sending it directly to the bloodstream, and allows the liver to take care of it.
In a sedentary person: this leads to lipogenesis. Fat creation. Not healthy.
During exercise, lipogenesis is shut down. Fructose will be converted to other things, in liver and elsewhere.
The fact that fructose can be more readily shuttled from gut to blood, in regular high fructose consumers, could explain the very large variability in folks absorptive abilities during exercise.
This is probably part of the argument, underpinning the “train your gut” movement, though I don’t think I’ve seen fructose absorption enhancement specifically discussed in any of those lay articles. Maybe I’ll write one!
Edit! PS. I read many of their cited sources to verify / challenge veracity of their claims, and form some of the written info above.
Thanks! Very clear and elaborate! I will continue slamming fructose in my sports drinks on harder rides. It worked very well for me so far in the last year and with BMI < 18 and no sweet drinks consumed outside of training I reckon I am safe.
@Dr_Alex_Harrison wait a minute. My normal workout bottles contain 3 strawberry pop-tarts, 17 grams of Gatorade powder, and 10 grams of Karbolyn powder. I mix that with two cans of Coke, and put it all into the Ninja blender for 7 minutes. Pour (scrape) into a bottle, add some ice cubes, then hop on the trainer.
For rides when I need a bit more fat instead of all sugar, I substitute one pop-tart in the blender with a McDonalds Filet-o-Fish patty.
Are you suggesting this might not be ideal? hmmm.
I’ll have to give that a try…