Legacy Pricing Update

Will this offer be run again?
I would have paid more on going but right now I’m on long term sick and just rolling with paying and not using it. When my I’m back to earning and not on benefits I’d sign up

First of all I have to say kudos to Nate and TR for the options they have presented. In a time when a lot of companies are blatantly profiteering (especially in the UK) I appreciate the moral stance they have taken here - it’s extremely rare and very commendable. For what it’s worth here’s my thinking. I’ll be 56 this year. I’ve used TR for my training since 2016 and been successful in veteran (masters for you US folk) time trials. At the same time I’ve used Zwift for some social activities with my club and for some e-races during the winter. During the pandemic lockdowns (we had at least 3 where I’m from) I didn’t use TR but paid for it anyway.

To the point, I think I am now going to have to choose because I can’t afford both given I would feel morally obliged to accept the price increase given what I said at the start about TR.

On the one hand TR is by far superior for training but as I get older the competitive edge is blunting and my “gains” tend to be slowing the onset of age - so do I really need it?

On the other hand Zwift offers me the social aspects above, races with some of the best riders in the world (sarcasm) and training which I don’t like and is nowhere near as good as TR imho.

So I need to make a choice. Thank you for the time to make it Nate and my appreciation for the way you have gone about this.

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So if I stay on my current price, I get a thanks, but only if I take the new price do I get a f@#king thanks! :wink:

Joking aside, I think the way you’ve handled this issue is absolutely incredible, and I’m sure has just further cemented the loyalty that so many of your subscribers feel towards you, both as a company, and thanks to the podcast, as individuals.

I’ll keep whatever choice I choose to make private in this public space, but I’m looking forward to many more years on this amazing platform. I just wish my current life and training status allowed me to make much more use of the tools on offer!

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I will most likely choose to stay at legacy (2015) for now. Mainly because I pay annually and it is not due until July. So basically this gives me a little more time to think and also to see how much I will use TR over the next 6 months. The last couple of years I have barely used it (due to other commitments), but have stayed as a customer, mainly due to the legacy price.

Like others I also use Zwift partly for social and partly for club / races. But I flipping hate doing workouts in Zwift. I love the simple TR screens - and for most workouts I just watch Netflix or prime whilst working out.

There are a few other factors worth thinking about.

The podcast is awesome. Yes I know it is free, but in a world where most other podcasts have adds and patreon support, this is worth noting - of course there are TR plugs :slight_smile:

The calendar. I personally think TR could do more with this - particularly when it comes to other types of workout - eg run, swim, gym - and planning. If they did that, I think more could turn off their training peaks subscription, which would pay a lot towards TR. I don’t pay for TP anymore, Not worth it for me.

I would be interested to know if there are any plans to enhance the calendar?

And let us not forget this forum (again free). Such a great source of information.

In all probability I will probably change my subscription to the 15% discount once I get to my annual payment - as I do think those who supported early on, should get some “benefit”.

My 2p worth.

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@Nate_Pearson
Call me stupid call me dumb, but I also suck at climbing and I’m okay with that.

But after watching the video and trolling through 182 posts and then checking my account status I’m still lost.

Your proposal on the change is far to complicated - when i go into my account this is what I see

image

So - I either select 189 USD as my next annual payment on 21 Sept 2023
Or
I select 99 USD / Month ?? from 21 Sept 2023

The annual plan i save 999 USD ??

Am I really stupid is there a mistake here ?

I get you want to increase the prices and the promises you made back in the day cannot be sustained in todays business climate.

Yes some will opt in on the new proposal but most won’t and your drive to increase much needed revenue will not deliver on the expected outcome. The net result worst case scenario TR closes down. A lot of your customers will be disappointed but everyone will simply move on to the next platform and forced to pay their prices.

I been in sales most of my life. The majority of customers (99%) will want the best quality & service at the cheapest price
I always relate these 3 to a triangle each side been equal representing Quality, Service & Price. A company giving all 3 to the customer will not last and I see this happening with TR in their goal to retain customers - It is not sustainable ! Irrespective of your promises. The customer can only have 2, If he wants all 3 then he needs to find a supplier that will give him all 3 - Good luck with that.

TR delivers their 2 sides “Quality” & “Service” to your customers, you need to retain the “Price” side. At the same time, make allowances for legacy customers as part of your customer retention strategy.

Here is a proposed model

New customers
$ 189.00 / year paid annually
$ 16.00 / per month - Pay per use - similar to ZWIFT - can switch on and off their sub based on when they need it - Gets 2 free 60 min & 1 free 90 min session on the switched off months. All history is maintained on their account.

Loyalty customers
-5% discount after 3 years
Loyalty+ customers
-10% discount after 5 years

Legacy customers
$ 160.65 / year paid annually (basically 15% discount)
No monthly billing option available.

All pricing for all customers are subject to annual price increases.

Some legacy customers will say thanks but no thanks i’m outta here. Okay well sorry to see you go, thanks for your support and hope to see you back in the future, but unfortunately we can no longer supply you with the same level of service & quality at the current prices you are paying. (Lots of them will return). Change their account to monthly $ 16.00 with the option to retain their legacy status if they return within the first 6 months of leaving. After 6 months they pay the new customer rate however their history is still retained on their account. If their account is dormant and not used or paid for 12 months, it gets deleted and they will need to register as a new customer should they return.

And that’s it - short sweet and simple - But it needs to be done or you be back in that garage scripting on old Doss desktops again.

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Pretty much how I feel as I posted earlier in the thread. All I seriously use it for is the AI FTP detection and so have decided to continue at my legacy pricing as I think having my money as an intermittent/non user as opposed to not having it as a total non user is better for TR. If and when I start to use the platform properly I’ll reassess the situation. If the gang ever sell out I’ll most likely stop the subscription.

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Hi,

So there is no option to grandfather the price at 189 USD or the 189-15% price?

I’m currently at 129 USD price. And with the EUR to USD conversion the price has been increasing last few years.

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This whole grandfathered in price promise is the reason we are here.

It needs to end - Nate needs to take it on the chin - He made a promise that can no longer be sustained - Legacy users will forgive him or move on - But TR will grow.

Besides - Any legacy user who honestly believed $ 99 / yr would be for eternity without an annual incr. needs to come back down to the real world.

The grandfathered price should still have been subject to annual increases - this is how I understood it when it was first mentioned, but i was wrong and clearly so was Nate when he offered it.

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UK intermittent user here, subscribed since 2017.

Beyond the initial cost of development, I can’t think of anything major beyond people on payroll, bugfixes, support and hosting costs that need maintaining once you have me as a subscriber.

The great thing about SAAS is that these costs don’t scale linearly with a subscriber base. Profit increases exponentially with every new subscriber that’s added. I get the impression that the subscriber base has grown significantly since 2017, which is great! Please correct me if I’m wrong on any of this.

Now, my usage probably peaked in 2019, just before all the AI stuff came in. Since then, there have been months and years where I’ve not been able to use TR but wanted to keep subbed to support you guys. The podcast’s been fantastic, and TrainNow has been fantastic when drifting between training “blocks” – or “times when I’ve been able to work out at a decent intensity due to a long lasting injury”.

In the UK we’re looking at rent and mortgage payments going up by 20-30%, energy bills going up 100%, transport costs going up by over £100/year, basic foods increasing in price by 50%. On top of this we also managed to dunk our GBP/USD exchange rate (that’s before fees…)

Most of these things don’t enjoy exponential profit margins as they scale, but TR does.

The email I got this morning says this:

To help us ensure a stable financial future and continue building more features, we’re updating our pricing.

My curiosity is what the plan is after this $99 → $189/year price hike? And just how viable are you over the next 1, 3, 5, 10 years? I love how simple TrainerRoad is to use, want to see it continue, and I’m happy to continue paying for the ultra long haul. But I don’t know what you’re going to build. And it sounds like if I double my contribution, you’re already on dire financial straits if we’re talking about “financial future”…

I get that as a privately held company, one tends to be tight lipped about these things. I also appreciate and commend that you want to take care of your team. However, suggesting to me that I double my costs is thought provoking, to say the least.

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Great suggestion!

@Nate_Pearson I too was wondering how I save $999. I assume this is wrong :grinning:. No 15% option?

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New gravel bike in 2022.

New MTB bike on order for 2023.

Now I’m purposely choosing to pay more than my legacy pricing.

This cycling hobby is getting expensive!

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I am inclined to agree with you Marc, from a business point of view. A loyalty scheme would make much more sense. And if it really only is 70 users on the cheapest rate, well frankly it doesn’t matter.

That is why I posted I am likely to take the 15% and see it as loyalty discount. But equally, why be a sucker if you can get the product cheaper?

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Always was :slight_smile:

Nate has kept his promise as I understand it. If you choose to stick at legacy price you still get all the features - you don’t regress back to 2015

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Not sure if I’m reading this wrong but this seems MORE complicated not less - tiered discounts, switch on and off with some free sessions…?

Haha spoken like an honest customer.

If I was the TR CEO this would be my decision assuming there are really only 70 legacy people left

70 legacy customers @ 99 / yr = 7000 income.
Increase to 160.65 / year = 11 245.50 income
Budget 40% attrition = 42 legacy @ 160.65 = 6 747.30 income realizing a 252.70 loss in year 1

assuming in the USA a 5% annual increase is the norm (I’m from South Africa so 7.5 - 12.5 is the norm)

42 X 168.68 (incl 5% incr) = 7 084.67 - Back in the black in year 2 and you’ve killed the grandfather price mistake. As all subs irrespective will be subject to price increases

I get slandered, called a traitor, lose friends, etc etc.

In 6 months its not even a discussion point any longer, everyone sucked it up, put on their big girl panties and stayed or moved on.

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I was mislead by the picture of features included 2015 vs Now included in the mail from TR. My bad. I deleted my post since it was based on incorrect information. Thank you for correcting me!

It’s not really complicated. Its more about giving users more payment options and receiving rewards for loyalty

Similar to ZWIFT - You pay monthly if you don’t want to use it for a particular month you switch it off by ticking a block in your account and they don’t bill you, your account is still live and you get to ride 25km free in each month that you have it switched off. So its like a pay per use system. When you come back and decide to do a training plan for say 3 or 4 months you simply switch it on and get billed for those months.
So if you are a user that only uses TR for 5 months based on your events you doing you will only pay for those months.
If on the other hand you use it for the entire year you opt for the annual plan and get it cheaper for paying up front for 12 months.

Loyalty discounts are a good way to attract and retain your customer base - Ask any retailer, they really work well.

I based my proposal on TR doing things that ZWIFT & other platforms are not doing. Which in any business sets them apart from their competitors

Zwift you can only pay monthly with the option to switch off and on (Pay per Use) and 25km free ride per month - Thats it !

TR you get the same
But additionally
You can pay yearly which attracts a discount
3 & 5 yr loyalty attracts additional discounts.

What you have now is a sustainable triangle - Excellent Quality - Excellent service - Excellent price model.

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Theres apparently on 70 of us in the cheapest granfathered price - but that isnt $99 its $89… so that means there will be a LOT more people at the next price level of $99 and then probably a massively increased number at the level just above that etc etc so your calcs are well off IMHO.

Then there is the point that TR brand has always been about much more than simply $$ in the door - always has been and its clear Nate and team want to keep it that way. Its clearly part of their culture and values. Just taking a pure beancounter approach to burning a load of loyal customers - the people that paid to have all this build for the last 10+ years - doesnt sound like what TR is really about. Thats why there are still 70 of us here since they turned the lights on and have happily continued to pay year in and year out regardless of use etc.

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