Just spent two weeks cycling in the US and found the car traffic very scary

They are really using that one case to highlight the issue….the data speaks for itself.

Cycling is 4.5 times more deadly and walking is 2.2 times for Black people on American streets as compared to white people, the data says

Now, this isn’t really surprising when you think about it….Black people largely live in areas with fewer infrastructure advantages (sidewalks, bike lanes, shoulders bike paths, etc) and also have a higher urban living percentage.


We see what we want to see when it comes to this problem. Confirmation bias is real. If you want to find racism everywhere, you will. Same with right-wingers and Woke folks.

I spent most of the last 30 years riding in the Denver/Boulder area, and I’ve toured all over the country from Arizona to Montana to Maine to Georgia. I’ve been cussed at by hippies as many times as I’ve had coal rolled at me by good ol’ boys. The rudest drivers are always those having the worst day, in the biggest hurry, or the angriest at life, no matter who they are or their politics.

The kindest drivers I’ve ever experienced were in rural Alabama and rural Montana while touring with my dad. The rudest were in Boulder County. Do with that what you will.


For me it’s all over the map where I’ll find rude or nice drivers. I think most gravel riding I’ve done the drivers are nice. Likely because there’s little traffic so it’s easy for them to pass and also because they’re not generally doing 50mph on those roads anyway so they’re in less of a hurry.


Interesting article. Yes, really not surprising. I’d be interested to know how much the car-focused infrastructure actually benefits those local communities. I know many more people own cars in the US than in Europe, but poorer people generally can afford cars less. That could be a double whammy - less pedestrian-friendly infrastructures in those communities that actually have fewer cars and are forced to walk more (to eg get to public transportation).

That is a good point…many members of those communities are reliant on bikes as transportation to work, school, etc.

Also worth noting that we tend to think of people like ourselves when we talk about cyclists being killed on the roads……but we are the minority of that group. The data includes kids getting killed while riding, etc. There have been a number of kids killed recently in Chicago while riding their bikes.

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That’s awful.

Interesting experience on today’s ride.

Noting first that I passed or was passed by roughly 40 cars during my hour ride (rural area), 39 passes occurred without incident.

The other interaction was noteworthy.

I had ridden down a remote paved road that changed to gravel, and simply turned around. Maybe a mile after the turnaround, a diesel 4X4 truck (with a lift kit and Trump stickers) comes up behind me, pulls to the other lane, and shouts out his window:

Driver: “Are you going to ride down this road again?”
Me: “Not today, but I live nearby and ride through here sometimes”
D: “Just wanted to let you know my dog is out. He’s friendly, but he might chase you. His name’s Hershey.”
We talked for another minute or two, figured out that he’d gone to school with my son, and he gave me his business card (he does HVAC repair)

If I hadn’t talked to him, it would have been easy to draw all sorts of conclusions, but as it turned out, he went out of his way to make my ride safer. As another poster said, there is lots of bias confirmation out there, but if we extend the benefit of the doubt, we often find friends and allies on the road.


No amount of precautionary steps will protect us from drunk and stupid. < sigh >
2 killed, 3 hospitalized after car crash during Make A Wish bike tour (wxyz.com)

Unfortunately, these things happen everywhere. This just two weeks ago close to my home in Southern Germany. The driver was not even intoxicated. Overtook a car and did not see the two cyclists. He claims because of low sun. He was driving in NE direction in the evening! More likely that he saw them and thought he would still get past the other car. Stupid cyclists anyway. I experience this all the time on the road. And this time it ended in disaster.

However, what makes me really angry are those commentators below the article.

Exactly. As the world gets faster, things more complicated, people RAGE at anything that slows them down. That means cyclists.

People will stare at their phones for 5 seconds after the light turns green, causing others to miss the light, but they’ll rage at a cyclist for delaying them the slightest bit.


And this is in the UK. Wow. And I thought riding around here was bad, but bikers have had trash thrown at them. Bottles, cans, etc. But this article is so depressing/horrifying.

Note the ‘rightwing press’ comment. I’m so sick of the BS those poisonous companies spray out. So wonderful they are. If only hate wasn’t so profitable. I thought their hate was jealousy, but it’s much worse than that. People who can’t think, but feel the seething resentment they are being fed. (sigh)


And too many people rage at what they are told to rage at, without questioning or thinking about it. Yikes…

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What you describe is the source of another bias, of the sampling kind. The number of observations in Boulder County after 30yrs of driving approximates the real distribution and you are bound to “see everything”. Whereas touring with your Dad in the south is a much smaller sample prone to be biased.

I just spent a weekend at a multiday club gravel riding event in Trinidad, Colorado. I’ve never meet such courteous drivers, and this is oil/gas country. Every vehicle on the road was a big ole truck, but every driver slowed down for us, waved, and many even stopped to chat with our group. Go to Trinidad for the best maintained gravel roads and long views of the Colorado prairies. They are really trying to draw in that tourist base and have made a lot of headway accommodating big groups and gravel races.

so true.

And it’s happened to my family too, and way too many others. Sad.

Why can’t they all just ride a bike and be happy?

You have got to be kidding me……I’ll just suggest you re-read what I posted in this whole thread. The whole point of my posts was to provide examples of systemic inequalities which lead to the higher death rate for cycling and walking among Blacks.


I reacted badly to your, and others posts taken out of context. I apologize to the list, and you.

Car/bike, and car/runner accidents are sometimes deliberate acts, and that is likely part of what helped fuel my response. Every time I pass a ghost bike I have an incredible wave of sadness. (Do runners have a similar marker when a runner is run down?) It’s horrifying that some law enforcement and judicial actors whitewash it, dismiss it, refuse to prosecute it, plea bargain it to meaninglessness. Who knows if race plays a part in it.

I only hope the next one isn’t me.


We’re all good…thanks. :facepunch:t2:


I like this cartoon, which highlights the warped thinking perfectly