Iq2 was a thing way before COVID was. I agree with some of your points but not with making excuses for them. They made claims they didn’t deliver on, time and time again, and lately have been outright avoiding customers (not even talking about Kickstarter backers now). IMO they still have a moral obligation to their backers to actually do something, otherwise anyone can start a Kickstarter campaign, collect a bunch of money, and then say “well we THOUGHT we could do it, but we can’t, thanks for the funding 
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I am not talking about you in particular now, but the point of my last posts was that many people seem to lack empathy when they talk about IQ2 and seem to interpret the worst in their behavior.
For example, having bad or no customer service is quite normal in very small companies — you simply might not have the manpower, especially when sh*t is spraying from the fan across the whole room while the house is on fire. And yes, they have made promises that they couldn’t keep — because their business is not working out. They are not trying to be mean to their backers or defraud them, I don’t know why people take that personally. And I think Covid just put (another) bullet in the whole enterprise.
Maybe we have different expectations here, but in my book when you start a Kickstarter campaign your moral obligation is to try and do what you set out to do. I think they did that, and they made an honest attempt. And in my mind it is precisely a platform where people can, pun intended, kickstart a business. Most businesses fail, and I think it is perfectly fine to close the doors one last time and post “well we THOUGHT we could do it, but we can’t, thanks for the funding”. Kickstarter’s only responsibility in my book is to weed out weak business cases and cases of outright fraud. @GPLama reviewed their product and was by-and-large happy with it. The “only” issue is mass production 
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Just keep in mind a lot of the people who have “lost empathy” spent the last 2 years or so vehemently defending IQ2 when some others, myself included, smelled the bull💩 coming. Kickstarter aside, they have seemingly been taking preorders on the website for some time now and continually pushing back the delivery dates, all while posing on social media like they are a viable business. It just doesn’t bode well for a lot of people and I’m sure you can see why.
Again, what bullshit? My parents used to own their own businesses, so I can say with first-hand experiences is that building a business is hard and most businesses fail. Sometimes for reasons that are not your own fault.
I don’t think taking pre-orders was a bad or shady business move, they needed capital in advance to pay for things. It’s just that people mistook “pre-ordering (on Kickstarter or directly) an IQ2 power meter” for “pre-ordering a book on Amazon”, where you can be assured to either receive the book or receive a refund. In fact, that’s the whole point of Kickstarter campaigns, you inject cash to get a business off the ground.
And when you write “you could smell the bullsh*t”, then in my book you just made the same decision as I did, you didn’t want to take that risk. And that’s perfectly fine, too.
I don’t know what you mean by that.
I’m sure it’s a lot easier to make excuses for them when you haven’t been getting dragged along for 2 years. You claim the people who accuse IQ2 of malice are wrong, so are you then implying there was definitely no malice? I don’t think it’s worth my time to argue with someone who is unable to put themselves into other peoples shoes and see their frustration as valid.
Please, don’t post dictionary definitions of words. That doesn’t set a good tone for the discussion. I understood each of the words perfectly, but I still don’t know what you mean.
Yes, correct, I can see no malice in IQ2’s actions. And I think people who see malice in their actions are most likely wrong.
Oh, I do understand that very well, they are disappointed and angry that they have lost money, especially because they have had very high hopes for the product. IQ2’s power meter has received a lot of hype. But IMHO they could have spared themselves some of the disappointment if they had adjusted their expectations. Ditto for people who pre-ordered — IQ2 was a known quantity back then, a shaky business and giving them comes with some risk. As I said, I have backed Kickstarter projects in the past (see.sense lights and the Mac version of Twitteriffic), and I considered that money gone.
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There are also people who have pre-ordered through IQ2 (not Kickstarter) who are along for the ride and now filing claims with their CC companies to get refunded after deadlines are pushed back further and further. Or their emails are simply ignored while posts continue to go up on social media painting a picture of a successful company with product right around the corner.
Kickstarter aside, how would you feel if you pre ordered a product (not crowdfunded) and were told month after month that there’s another delay, while the company is acting like everything is going according to plan on Instagram? My guess is you’d probably be pissed off and start suspecting malice, or at the very least some level of incompetence.
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I’d probably be bummed, and depending on the circumstances I might think of incompetence, but not necessarily. Although having a social media presence doesn’t point to that to be honest. I am quite sure I would ever think of malice unless I came to the conclusion that the business was fraudulent. That is, if there was never any intention to build a product and the sole aim was to fleece unsuspecting people of their money.
Come to think of it, something like that has happened to me once: David Carson, a famous designer who was responsible for Ray Gun magazine among other things launched another magazine and asked people pay a year’s worth of subscription in advance. I did, and I received exactly one issue — the magazine had folded after that. After trying a few times I eventually got a reply from someone, confirming what I thought all along. I felt sad that it didn’t work out, but I didn’t have any of the feelings you described. Perhaps we are just wired differently 
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In any case I don’t think it’s right to tell people they are wrong to feel the way they feel, opinions are just that, and people who paid for a product they haven’t received are going to feel more strongly than someone on the sidelines like you and I who don’t have money on the line. If people feel these is malice, that’s their opinion and they are entitled to it based on their experience. You may not agree with it, but shouldn’t dismiss it either. There’s a lot of situations in society where this is the case, and where some rather eager individuals would then label you as ignorant or worse. I don’t think that’s the case, maybe your tolerance to this is just higher than other people, but I’ve literally watched @ZeroGravity go from posting updates and rationale behind the delays at IQ to now seeming to be tired of their crap.
Not seeming, tired of their crap too, but realistic and disappointed but I am not out there slamming them as crooks.
My thoughts are that this is not a scam and I defended IQ^2 because what they were trying to do is no where a simple as the angry masses think it is and I think there was a lot of naivety and wishful thinking on both sides. They could have bailed ages ago and to put this level of effort would make no sense fi they were only in it to maximize their “profit”. Right from their first slips, the backers looking for an Amazon type instant purchase immediately got very vocal on how it was a scam. I cut them some slack because after 30 years in high-tech from the biggest telecomm equipment company in the world to a 10-person aerospace startup, I know what it takes to get a concept to viable product. It ain’t easy even for big companies with lots of $$. I’ve seen lots fail, I’ve seen lots miss their mark in terms of functionality and dates. The aerospace company I worked for shifted gears on an autonomous drone while I was there, I worked on it for 3 years, and I left almost 9 years ago. They are still working on it. I left because I felt it was never going to come to fruition and the owner/president made many (in my opinion) questionable, borderline unethical moves to keep the company afloat. Not out of malice, just trying to keep it alive. I think this is where IQ^2 is. Almost out of runway trying to get something to keep it alive.
So, I am tired and disappointed but I took the risk. If I was IQ^2 i would have done things considerably differently right from the beginning where they didn’t prototype their original design and had to pivot after considerable expenditures and insurmountable design flaws and then being up front with backers. I think they grossly underestimated that backers weren’t just looking for “any” power meter but the pedal agnostic part was fundamental to the project and simply switching to another Look pedal wasn’t satisfactory but once they made the shift, they weren’t going back on it.
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I am also a backer. I knew what I was getting in to.
I think I am more disappointed because the review units seem accurate and worked. If they hadn’t shipped review units to show they worked I would be less disappointed. Their communication has been awful, but it seemed they got very close.
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I think it shouldn’t be a question anymore whether they have or could make one, rather do they have enough money left or coming in to produce enough of them. I think the PCBA availability is a red herring in that they could have them made but can they or do they have to pay for them up front before their supplier starts production. Winter is almost on me here so maybe 5 months from now will start to think about power meters and what could have been again
Given there are people who purchased via the website who have been unable to get their money back, despite IQ2’s “pre-order money back guarantee”, I’m leaning on the side of them being crooks.
I can understand why kickstarter backers are still on side though… I mean, they’re never getting anything back, so they might as well hope for the best at this point.
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Fair point, as a backer I tend to forget that there are many pre-order customers out there who aren’t getting refunds when requested.
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This is my biggest issue:
I think you have to make some fairly heroic assumptions to believe that someone ordering today will receive any product in December 2020. To be fair, there is a link to their Kickstarter campaign on that page - so any potential customers not familiar with the story to date might spot that and do a bit more research first…
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Everyone ordering today will get their powermeters on the 32nd of December 2020.
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Never attribute to malice what could more likely be attributed to ineptitude.
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Problem is we don’t know if there is ineptitude or malice or both. Making promises for a deadline and pushing them back is ineptitude. Doing so knowing you can’t make the deadline, and running through the same process time and time again could be considered malice.
Best way to avoid any suspicion of impropriety would be A. Don’t keep taking new orders when you’ve been delayed time and time again and have a backlog of folks waiting for product or B. Don’t set expectations for delivery dates you cannot be sure to meet.
It’s not hard to look at their repeated ineptitude and suspect malice as a result especially if you’re someone who pre ordered and got left high and dry
Think about it, forget Kickstarter, imagine you pre ordered on the site 6 months ago and were given a delivery date. Then the date got pushed back due to unforeseen circumstances. And then again. And again. Meanwhile the company is still taking orders and promising a date just around the corner. You get fed up and reach out, to get no response, while the company continues to post on social media like everything is going great. Wouldn’t you start to feel a bit suspicious?
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Why does everyone seem to ignore or accept fiduciary responsibility does not applicable when funding were raised on crowdfunding platform? Why does everyone seem to think that basic contract law, offer and acceptance, doesn’t apply?
Back to the question, what was offered? We need funding to mass produce a product that “works”. Was the money used on mass production of the offer? No. If you continue to say yes, show me proof (pictures would be nice). Was the product changed? Yes, it was a switch. Was there a bait? Yes, back to the offer. Putting it together, it’s a “bait and switch”. Is that a scam? Yes or I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you. Was it done in malice? You decide.
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Firstly, contract law does apply but the contract you are entering is not a contract for the sale of goods. It’s an agreement that you will invest in their company with a view to getting a finished product if there ever is one.
Secondly the pedal design is more expensive to manufacture than the original device, why would it be a bait and switch in that direction? Doesn’t compute.
They ran into an unsurmountable problem, which would’ve been the perfect time to run away with all our money if they had intended to. Instead they put themselves in a hole trying to get a product to market that still meets the needs of a vast majority of their backers.
That alone has convinced me that their hearts are in the right place, they are just terrible at communication and very naive.
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