an update here would be really nice!
Couple of weeks, but obviously it looks at data in the past to build your profile.
Doing 6 indoor rides a week.
In terms of goal, is it possible to specify a type of effort to train? My main focus this year is short time trials, 25 mins tops, down to as short as 2 minutes, which doesn’t fit into any of the current plans.
Will there be anything I can do to point my training in that direction with AT?
Would love an update on this as well. This is the AT feature I’m most excited about.
The goals you want are based on the plan you choose. Even with AT, I would say you likely will have to choose between either the short efforts or the long efforts for your ultimate goal (aka pick one A race). Those are pretty different energy systems that you’re looking to improve, so chasing improvement in one will likely result in the other falling off to a degree. That doesn’t mean you’ll no longer be competitive in the other, but if you’re looking to peak for a race, you’ll probably have to pick one or the other unless the A races were well separated on the calendar from each other.
I think I’m just gonna have to see how it shakes out then! Am currently on a 40km TT plan, for my first A race in a few weeks (a 16km TT) but my big A race is probably only gonna be 4 minutes long when I get there in November. but it’s a single steady effort, so repeatability isn’t a thing that bothers me.
That’s plenty of time between events to set up a second plan to bring you to that November race. Just pick a plan focused on shorter efforts (probably criterium or road race specialty) to start a second plan after you finish your A race. That’s probably how I’d play it out.
I think this will continue to be a problem as AT grows in functionality. I expect new AT related features to be added (based on TR comments), but I have no idea how those will be branded. Since “AT” is in beta now, how will what “AT” is in two years be documented? I have also seen some descriptions of what people think AT is/does now that isn’t backed up by TR statements. I don’t expect TR to correct all misconceptions on the forum, but a clear/concise description of what it actually does would be helpful. I just looked at the AT page, and it does NOT do this. The only way you have any idea about what it really does and does not do is to have listened to the podcasts. I guess that’s OK for beta, but I hope things are more clear once it is fully released.
I expect we will get this, when they actually reach the “Official Release”. They mentioned things like FAQ and other info that will accompany the release. So maybe that will be what we see at that time?
Ok, I am excited about AT (having just rewatched the intro video), so I have a few questions: Either Tr @Nate_Pearson or beta users may be able to answer some… here goes…
Judging a success./fail on short VO2 ride intervals. I have just done Spainish Needle-1 which is 15/15 at 140%. I am using a kickr core and V3 pedals. However for the 15sec on, I was typically showing an average of 268W to 280W instead of the target 290W. I assume this is due to it being a short interval and some ramping up. Would this be counted as a fail, or partial fail? Or a clean?
Plan builder, or plans of choice. A couple of times on the video Nate talked about using Plan Builder.
a) However I assume I can simply choose the plans I want and it will work. Is that correct?
b) If I then add my races into my plans, will AT pick that up for me? or do I have to adapt ahead of them?
A, B and C races: I do Time Trials and frequently race a C race mid week and an A or B race at the weekend. (I have had seasons where I have done over 35 races of a variety of lengths, which is why plan builder does not work well for me).
a) Does it recognise or acknowledge a difference between A, B and C races?
b) How does it include A, B and C races?
Warm-up and warm down: On a race day, I do a warm up. reset Garmin. Race, stop that session and then warm down. So I have three sessions. (This keeps the race itself separate from the WU & WD). Will this confuse things?
Outside Rides: Come the race season I often do long outside training rides on my TT bike. These are off plan, as I am doing perhaps long intervals (25-30 mins), and then tacking on another 20 miles of so. Will these count in any way to AT adaption? (in what circumstances?) Or only show upo when I do other sessions and clean them? (I realise there are outside ride issues with AT and wahoo/garmin).
Outside rides 2: I’ll often do an ride on the local hills (road bike) steady rides with hard pushes up hills. A sort of Z2/3 incorporating Z5/6, just as a contrast and leg strengthener against my usual Z3/4/5 work. Will outside rideswith these sorts of efforts be picked up?
Bike type? Is anything planned to adjust for TT bikes vs Road bikes? (I assume others such as MTB and gravel people have a similar question). or is it simply, you are doing this power in this zone for this time, inside or outside? (I realise this might be a bit subtle)
that is all for now. Thanks TR team. i am looking forward to AT.
Note, I am not going to ask “When am I getting this?”. That would be silly. It will be when it will be…
I’ll try to answer what I can based on my experience and what @Nate_Pearson and others have said in this thread.
It would likely be considered a success. Super strict adherence isn’t necessary for success. I’ve had successes when I’ve backpedaled through part of the second to last interval, turned down by 5% for the last one and completed the rest of the workout as planned. It allows for quite a bit of flexibility, and much more than I think a lot of people here would think it allows for.
It will work with any TR plan, not just plan builder. As long as you have a structured workout, it is classifying your performance for progression levels.
Plan Builder does this. It will build the plan with these races in mind and set the workouts at the macro level. AT handles the workouts at a micro level and will change the workouts to others addressing the same system based on your current progression levels.
This is done through Plan Builder, but you have to classify your races correctly. If you have more than 2-3 A races per year, re-evaluate the priority level of them as some are likely B races. I would not have more than 2 A races per year, personally. In any case, dropping all your races into Plan Builder (including Bs and Cs) will create a full plan with proper progression toward your A races. You can choose to taper or not taper for races as well when you do this. I’d recommend giving Plan Builder another try. I just reused it to add a race to my calendar and the experience was much better than it was at launch.
I do not think it will confuse it, but this would be better answered by TR.
If it is associated with a TR workout or a TR custom workout, it will contribute to progression levels and therefore adaptations. If it is off plan and not associated with a workout (aka a known outcome), it is currently not classified. Wahoo outdoor TR workouts currently are not classified, but it appears that Garmin are. Hoping this is fixed rather soon as some of the bugs I experienced recently were addressed with this week’s release.
See the previous response. Unstructured rides are not counted but are on the roadmap according to Nate and TR.
I don’t see functionality for this in AT right now and I’m also not sure of the plans to account for this. This is one for @Nate_Pearson.
Thanks @BCrossen . Very helpful.
I note your point about A, B, C races. It is just that as a TTer competing at different distances through the year I can end up with multiple A races, depending on how the season progresses, and the times I am chasing.
When I tried to input a season where I started with 25’s chasing fast times, and progressed to 50m, 100m and a 12hr TT (for qualification for the BBAR, where the best times from all three distances counted) I definitely had multiple A races. Having an A race, then looking for a better time, to improve my overall position.
Also my season is sometimes “Emergent” so I plan early races and then progress depending how it goes.
Plan builder definitely did not like that. I was on shortish recoveries and drop off tapers, using an early A race (definitely flat out) to build confidence and get qualifying times, to get me into faster courses and better times. Its not like doing a single marathon or ironman in a year. And Plan Builder does not understand a 12hr TT!
For a variety of personal reasons, this year will be simpler.
Thanks for exhaustive reply.
Just to note on the success thing. I’m yet to have confirmation, but based on two sessions on the same VO2max workout, it appears that actually lowering the intensity (via the control) can have an effect on your rating, independent of what power output you actually achieved.
In one case for me, dropping the intensity to 90% looks like the difference between a fail and a struggle pass, despite the fail actually having a higher average power, more intervals done at 100% and fewer intervals done sub 90% (9 in the struggle pass vs just 3 in the fail).
Would be nice to get confirmation though, as if that’s taken into account I’ll just leave the intensity setting alone and work out what I can survive without changing it. It could also very well be detecting that I didn’t hit original target intensity in some of the intervals, which would be more likely to be triggered by the reduced intensity session.
In this case, I would say your A race is BBAR and the qualifiers are your Bs. At least, that’s how I would input it. This still places heavy emphasis on those qualifiers (B still means it is quite important and has been discussed as being your “test races” or in your case qualifiers), but makes sure you peak for BBAR, which sounds like the one event you really want to nail.
To the TR crew,
As you work on incorporating outside rides, please think through how to “tag” a structured outside ride NOT done via creating a custom workout and sync’ing it a computer as a “failure”. For example, today I was supposed to do three hill sets that had multiple 1 minute accelerations within each hill set. I got through the first - barely, and pulled the plug in the 2nd as my leg were shot. How do I rate this so that it provides “good” info for AT? It’s not a ride that I would rate super hard, but I didn’t accomplish the ride goals.
Have to say that the modifications to my Threshold sessions feel like a bit of a triumph this week. The plan would have had me doing Threshold 5.5 which I might have completed (I’m in a heavy calorie deficit right now), but probably not… utterly shattering any confidence I may have built up. Instead, based on my performance / responses I had a 5.0 on Thursday and a 5.1 today which I was able to complete and add a little bit extra on top of.
I may be unusual in this, but I’d rather go into a session knowing I can complete it, and do extra if I’m feeling strong that day (for the same reason I do 5/3/1 for weights). Nothing worse than spending all day stressing about a session I don’t think I’ll be able to do (not least because I’ll automatically be sabotaging my chances of completion).
Sorry, @BCrossen you may have misunderstood. The BBAR (British Best All Rounder) is a season long UK Time Trialling competition, NOT a separate race. It takes your best times (average speeds) for races over the three qualifying distances (50m, 100m ands 12hrs for men) and ranks you against all others in the country. Cycling Time Trials: BBAR
You seem to be suggesting I have no A race and all the qualifying races are B races, which is not how I would think about it. Those races are definitely A races. There are just multiple ones through the season. So to compete I have A races in all three distances, and may be chasing better times (later A races) later in the season. I hope that clarifies things.
They discussed this in the podcast extensively a few times, but I can’t remember which ones. Basically A races should be absolute top priority and they suggest putting in only one or two in the year and if there are two they should be at least six weeks apart. The idea is that for an A race you start preparing to peak for it 6 weeks before the actual race. So in this paradigm its basically physically impossible to have very many A races. In your case, maybe pick a 100mi and a 12hr one as A since they are the highest impact and would require the most recovery after, then the other 50mi TTs as B. That way the plan builder logic will try to have you peak for the 100mi and 12hr events. My logic is that it’s easier to repeat the 50mi TTs if you’re unhappy with the result. Anyway, in a situation where you were racing for some season-long competition every week, I think the right approach in plan builder would be to label every week a B race, since you cannot possibly peak for each one.
Thanks, helpful. It will be interesting to see how Adaptive Training handles weekly mid-week club 10s and racing at the weekend.
Yes that clarifies. I was thinking BBAR was a race in itself, which would indeed make it your A race. It would be like how Kona would be a triathlete’s A race and they would put a couple of the qualifier races as Bs on their schedule. Or in the case of world cup mountain biking, the world championship would be the A race and there would be a handful of B races chosen in the world cup circuit to test the legs and aim for some wins throughout the season.
I think what @NilsJohan said makes more sense now that I understand the structure of your season.