I reckon the crux of all of it is that people aren’t riding hard enough!?!
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But also, if you’re really giving it to yourself with hard VO2 etc, you need to ride proper easy.
If you’re not riding super hard, then you can absorb more tempo/LT1 and Sweet Spot.
(I really like Sweet Spot training as I find it the biggest needle mover for my power on the bike)
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Yeah 20 mph on flat should be within our Z2 range for most of us who train.
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I’m really the last to defend Seiler, POL & Co but why do critics not even get this 80:20 right? If they already fail to grasp the basic concept of what they criticize, makes you really wonder about the validity of all their counter arguments.
However, the same annoys me about the fanboy fraction. Mr. Zone-2-“this-is-an-excellent-question”-ISM keeps on stating that he is a big fan of POL. But his zone 2 has nothing to do with Seiler’s Isaac-Newton-apple-moment of seeing the elite XC skiier walking up a hill. Absolutely nothing. What ISM advocates is closer to evil-medio-grey-zone-no-man’s-land-tyipical-cat-4-happy-hard effort than to I’m-so-cool-because-my-HR-does-not-go-above-100 effort.
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“most” seems a bit optimistic to me.
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N=1 data point: As a 3.5ish w/kg rider (145 lbs w/ 250-270w FTP range) many of my outside endurance rides (specifically solo and very well controlled) I am 16-18 mph with some rolling hills and steady effort. Little guy in relatively windy area at time vs others with higher raw watt FTPs that punch the wind better.
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Point being that speed is highly individual based on the rider and area of interest.
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Except when you sabotage things by riding outside in the winter on Pirelli Cinturato tubeless tires 
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So….why do you want to avoid the “polarized” training method? Because. It’s. Not. Fun.
Yup, that’s it. It’s not much fun. Not because it doesn’t work or isn’t well thought out.
Something something only a sith something something.
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Unless you do the sunday 8am ride and there z2 is threshold!!!
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You’d be surprised how much difference that rolling is making. True flat is a lot easier unless headwind! Then it just comes down to pure watts not w/kg, and not wearing clothes that flap about or sitting upright like you’re on a town bike.
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My n=1 is that I like POL. I’ve been doing it for about 5 months and it turns out POL is what I needed My base wasn’t strong enough and, just joining the 60+ club, SSB was killing me. And I’ve been adding more endurance workouts to further push my base (I opted for POL LV + Z2 over POL MV, so I could add in rowing intervals). This is really working for me. Of course, I could be weird, in that I don’t mind the endurance rides — music or podcasts are the filler.
The beauty of TR is that it gives options. Don’t like POL? Do something else.
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Unless I want to turn laps in a parking lot, riding outside = rolling hills. I realize many people live in
pan flat land, but there are plenty like me that don’t either. Hence my point = it depends…
As to your other stuff, I wear skin tight race gear, aero helmet, 60mm deep wheels and use drops or the faux aero hood hold a TON, so I am doing all I can other than a full aero bike… and still having less than 20mph by more than a little for Z2 rides.
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Right? I’m big like a truck. Definitely not a sleek and aero sports car.
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But … You get to rip around at 45km/h for 20min at a time 
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(Just being silly. I don’t think it matters.)
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Need to work on a beer belly so the weight is more aero
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46" chest unless I lose a lot of upper body muscle. And the belly of course.
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But this is rolling , which I’d take to be around an average of 16ft of climbing per mile. The flat areas I’ve ridden in are around 1-2ft per mile. That extra climbing in rolling terrain makes a big difference to average speeds. We are not talking averaging 20 mph in rolling terrain.
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pan flat, a slight increase from 27 feet above sea level, to 58 feet back a few months ago (October):
- 72% FTP so upper third of zone2
- 78 degrees
- wind 5-7mph out of NNW
- S-Works RapidAir 30c on mid aero Roval Rapide CLX wheels
- Tarmac SL7
I’m not aero. My chest is like a truck. 2.9W/kg.
Edit: 19.5mph is my best pure z2-endurance on that loop, but I didn’t push the top of z2.
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Don’t be modest Chad, this is 4w/kg 
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