How did you 5w/kg+ riders make it there?

Quick update from me, after 12 weeks of my usual tempo/sweetspot (In and outdoor) and once per week Z2 ride I tested this morning. I did the Friel protocol 30’ TT averaging 271w 4.9 w/kg.

Having not done any intensity whatsoever it was a shock to the system I can tell you but overall I was quite pleased. I think losing 1kg and gaining 4w will not be a problem to hit 5. As many have said it’s not the be all and end all, in my case repeatability is more important but it’s a good indicator I’m on the right track.

Just a shame there is no racing for the foreseeable future. Normally I would begin to move to more polarised training with VO2s and over/unders but given the lockdown I’ll look to maintain my current level for a month and see where things are…

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Robert, I’m curious about this, since you actually seem to know what you’re talking about.

Like most guys I want to get to 5W/kg. I just started training again this January. I used to be a cat 2 and did all my training back in the day without power. I’m 42 now, weigh 73.4kg, and I’ve been training probably on average of 8-10 hours a week for the last six months, with a few in the 12 hour range and several 2-4 hour weeks due to being sick a few times or just ebbed motivation due to covid + rain. My wko5 models my Vo2max at about 70 right now and my mFTP at 344. On Saturday last week I did a 5min test at 440W and then a 20min test at 366W. I closed that 20min test at 472W for the last 45s, so I think I could’ve milked a few more watts out of the 20min test. I rarely feel that good on a bike these days. It was one of those days. I used to race at about 158lb so I could probably lose about 2kg. I haven’t been doing any Vo2max training lately so I feel like I have some decent improvements I can make in that department. Wko5 says my mFTP is at 83.4% of vo2 (possibly + or - a few tenths; I don’t have computer in front of me). What would you think I can get to if I train optimally? Obviously I could increase volume. I’ve really not been doing much over 2.5 hours on any given day. But would doing a vo2 block help most? Or extensive aerobic? Intensive aerobic? Also especially interested in how you determine vo2/liters of oxygen requirements for given wattages at threshold or max aerobic efforts.


Post a larger pic of your PD curve and summary stats (FRC, TTE, Stamina, phenotype, height, etc) if you want a more detailed answer.

I am 188cm of height and weigh between 85 and 88kg - barely any fat, mostly muscles, i feel perfect and I dont see any way how I could loose weight without sacrificing muscle mass… which I dont want.
Have been doing TR workouts since late 2018 improved from 180 to now 242 FTP, which means barely 2,75 W/kg…

seems disappointing, but I guess with my height and weight there is not much to do as a 40+ year old.

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Will do in a bit here when I get home. Thanks!

Hey now don’t be ageist against yourself! I’m 42 and improving. Maybe not over what I did/could’ve done at 27yrs old, but I’ve added 25W to my 20min test from early October and after 3months with no training at all, I started at like 309 in January, so I’ve gained almost 60W since then. Planning to gain a lot more too. 40 is the new 30 bro!


I’m 178.5cm, Time Trialler phenotype. Looks like FTP is 83% of Vo2. Ignore the yearly PMax and mFTP. I have no idea where that FTP comes from and that 1432W PMax is a number I’ve only come close to a couple times so I think it was an aberration.

Basically all my metrics are low except my 5 and 20min efforts. Just started using wko5 at the end of March (although I’ve used TrainingPeaks for a couple years so I guess it imports all that data, but I haven’t raced or done almost any group rides that entire time). I know I could pump up my FRC pretty quickly, and fill out my curve significantly with targeted efforts… TTE is low, as are my shorter efforts… really I just haven’t really filled out my curve. For example, my 1min PR was set on the way to doing a 1:39 segment KOM, so I think I could do probably 620 or so (anaerobic (and NM) has become my weakness as I’ve gotten older). My 60min suffers mainly because I haven’t done a single race or group ride this year due to Covid. My 10min (371) was set en route to my 20min best effort. 400W for 8min is just an average that includes my 5min best effort. Everything between 1:40 and 8min was part of that 5min effort, and it shows: I’m only at about 6.1w/kg starting at 2:20 or so, but then I basically keep it there all the way through almost 6min. So obviously I could do way more for pure 2 and 3min efforts. Blah blah excuses, but really the bottom line is that when I try to set new bests, I’ve focused mainly on 5 and 20min efforts and not much else, nor have I done much in the way of volume, sprints, or long max efforts.

I assume I would benefit by feeding the model better data by really targeting a variety of durations to max out my curve? It sounds to me from some good posts here that I really need to work on increasing my TTE to make my FTP more of a meaningful stat. Would extensive aerobic/lots of SST intervals be a good way to do that? What exactly determines your TTE?

Thanks y’all, sorry for the lengthy posts!

@RobertK as well

Yeah I would whack out a 10s max sprint and a long effort around 35-45 minutes and see what shakes out. The delta between your current Pmax and year Pmax and the giant hole in the 20-40 minute range isn’t doing you any favors in figuring out what’s up.

To answer these kinds of questions, find a really good coach. When you’re trying to eek out those last few percent on limited training volume, you need someone who has worked with a lot of riders in similar circumstances, can look at your tool set, and prescribe (what hopefully) works.

Also “optimal” is going to depend on a lot of individual factors. Maybe something like INSYNC could help?

+60w since being 309w January?! :scream:


Yeah I should probably hire a coach. I just hoped with wko5 and TrainingPeaks and some advice I could prescribe my own training. What is insync? Googled it and all I get is some kind of Microsoft software and the boy band.

Also, how did you determine oxygen requirements for given wattages? That was my original motivation for posting.

Believe he meant INSCYD maybe :man_shrugging:

Yes, but (a) remember those are for 20min tests, not 100% FTP, and (b) I did 341 for 20 in mid-October, then didn’t ride at all till mid-January when I did a 20min test in 304 (sorry my memory of 309 was wrong; I just looked it up). So 304 is a detrained number. So really you could describe 366 this month as a 25W improvement since October if you wanted, as opposed to the more exciting-sounding 62W since January, although both are true.

You mean?


are they really a “boy” band anymore? JT is almost 40

I do think it was the inscyd software :slight_smile:


that’s the old ACSM formula: watts x .0108 + body mass in kg x .007 = liters of oxygen per minute

for an even-pcaed 4-6 minute effort

Oh, they’ll always be a boy band. Once a boy band, always a boy band. :joy:

@RobertK - thanks for the equation!

Started at 5.5 W/kg and drifted downwards from there. :wink:


Sort of like:

How do you make a small fortune running a cycling team?

Start with a large one.

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Judging by the way the Team talk on the Podcast, right around the ages of 8/9/10 years, we were ALL 6+w/kg :laughing:

If fact I think it’s time I took TR up on their promise. I want my money back!

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